Insteon reliability these days

[ClemsonJeeper]

I'm about to start outfitting our new 6300sq ft house and am still up in the air regarding light control.

I'm down to insteon and upb, leaning towards insteon. However, I have read horror stories from 2+ years ago regarding Insteon's reliability over time (switches failing after 6 months, 1st gen switches not working as advertised, etc)

In 2013, has any of this changed? Has anyone outfitted a large home with Insteon and regretted it?

I want to make sure I make the right decision before dropping many thousands of dollars on lighting control.

 

[apostolakisl]

My house is the same size as your and I have about 60 devices.  All of them replaced by smarthome after they acknowledged the problems and owned up to it.  We are going on 3 years without any failures.
 
Communication is almost 100%.  Be aware, that CFL's, especially cheap ones, often times are communication killers.  I have mostly LED's in my house and they are fine, and all the other people on the ISY forum have the same experience.
 
Rarely other things make noise.  The only thing in my house I have had to filter is a transformer for some low voltage lights.
 
And if you get Insteon, get an ISY right from the start.  It really makes the system work.  And if you haven't done security yet, Elk integrates seamlessly with ISY and therefore Insteon.  ISY also has added zigbee and zwave support which is expanding.  Also ISY integrates with CAI webcontrol and anything else that can respond to network commands if you get the network module.
 
Be aware that the Elk module costs $99 and the network module costs $50.

 

[JonW]

You may want to consider the bigger picture of automation & security before deciding on a lighting standard.  Since you're considering UPB, something like the HAI OmniPro II w/ UPB is integrated seemlessly and doesn't require any middle-ware to make them talk.  You will also be able to control them via your mobile devices without any additional hardware or servers needed.

 

[ChrisCicc]

INSTEON is very reliable, both in hardware and the communications protocol, especially with the latest (backwards compatible) version, i2CS. INSTEON's hardware failure rate is actually much lower than most others, including Z-Wave. When there are issues where INSTEON devices aren't communicating with each other, reliably or at all, it's either because of noise as mentioned above, or faulty wiring, for instance, cross grounding separate circuits. 

 

[wuench]

Insteon is not very reliable for me.  My whole house is done now and It is about 75% for scene communication which is not verified (group cleanup is terminated as soon another command is sent).  I have about 4 filters in my house and need more to up the reliability.  Basically every UPS or Surge protector has a filter on it.  I have about 50% dual band, and 2 APs deployed.
 
If I had to do it again I would go with ZWave or UPB.

 

[goldband]

INSTEON is very reliable, both in hardware and the communications protocol, especially with the latest (backwards compatible) version, i2CS. INSTEON's hardware failure rate is actually much lower than most others, including Z-Wave. When there are issues where INSTEON devices aren't communicating with each other, reliably or at all, it's either because of noise as mentioned above, or faulty wiring, for instance, cross grounding separate circuits. 

I am in almost the same position as the OP-- starting a new house and looking for HA and security solutions. There is much to like about Insteon-- but what I can't square is the many vitriolic flames about Insteon hardware and Smarthome online and some of the more recent favorable comments such as these. What has changed? Was there a major shift in QA or design of parts, if so what and when? Has there been a change in management at Smarthome?

 

[gatchel]

Insteon is no good without a Universal Devices ISY-99i or 994i. If you decide on insteon make sure to add this in to the cost. The early adopters had more issues with reliability. Nowadays there doesn't seem to be that much of an issue. The few new insteon devices I have purchased have been reliable thus far.
 
Insteon is similar to X-10 in that the more UPS's, computers and other signal sucking devices the more of a chance for comm issues. Never had much of an issue here but I still install filters at most of these devices especially the serveral UPS's that I currently have.

 

[bpwwer]

There are two aspects to "reliability" and we need to distinguish between them when discussing any HA system/protocol.  
 
Smarthome did have hardware reliability issues with their first generation of devices.  The micro-switches in the wall switches would fail prematurely.  Smarthome owned up to this and I don't believe it has been a problem since.  They also had problems where certain types of loads could cause lamp/appliance modules to fail.  I haven't heard anything about this for a long time either, but never did hear if they actually resolved the problem or if they are now more specific in the types of load they support. 
 
Communication reliability is much harder to gauge because of all the variables.  In almost all cases, communication failures are caused by noise.  If you don't have anything that interferes with the communications, you'll have a reliable system.  If you have something that interferes, then one manufacturers design may handle it better or worse than another's.  There's very little you can do to determine if UPB or Insteon will be better in your home.  The good news is that it should be possible to make either system communicate reliably.  
 
I don't know how you'd get any actual data on the various system's performance/reliability. Has anybody done a survey on this?
 
I have mostly Insteon (with a tiny bit of z-wave). I started with Insteon 7 years ago because it was a lot less expensive than the alternatives. Today, the cost of Insteon/UPB/Z-wave seems to be more equal. 

 

[apostolakisl]

There are two aspects to "reliability" and we need to distinguish between them when discussing any HA system/protocol.  
 
Smarthome did have hardware reliability issues with their first generation of devices.  The micro-switches in the wall switches would fail prematurely.  Smarthome owned up to this and I don't believe it has been a problem since.  They also had problems where certain types of loads could cause lamp/appliance modules to fail.  I haven't heard anything about this for a long time either, but never did hear if they actually resolved the problem or if they are now more specific in the types of load they support. 
 
Communication reliability is much harder to gauge because of all the variables.  In almost all cases, communication failures are caused by noise.  If you don't have anything that interferes with the communications, you'll have a reliable system.  If you have something that interferes, then one manufacturers design may handle it better or worse than another's.  There's very little you can do to determine if UPB or Insteon will be better in your home.  The good news is that it should be possible to make either system communicate reliably.  
 
I don't know how you'd get any actual data on the various system's performance/reliability. Has anybody done a survey on this?
 
I have mostly Insteon (with a tiny bit of z-wave). I started with Insteon 7 years ago because it was a lot less expensive than the alternatives. Today, the cost of Insteon/UPB/Z-wave seems to be more equal. 

 
 
Regarding cost.  Insteon at list price is starting to get up there in price, especially if you are buying lots of them.  They have improved their hardware and they "improved" the price to go along with it.  The most common device you are likely to buy will be the 2477D (a dual band wall dimmer).  These list at $60.  However, they often are on sale at $50, and then SH has a Christmas sale every year since I don't know when with 20% off (everything not just Insteon, so if you plan to buy from that in any significant way no matter what brand, consider that).  So for example, last Christmas I bought 10 more switches at $40 ea, free shipping. . . that's pretty cheap.
 
If you are buying an entire house system all out once, I suggest you get your list together and then call up SH and talk yourself down into the price range I mentioned.  Otherwise, you can wait till next Christmas.
 
And I forgot, I do have 2 filters, they other is on my power supply to my main rack of stuff (server, AV stuff and all).  Although it really wasn't a problem.  The LV transformer was butt obvious, when it was on, things just didn't work hardly at all (filter fixed it).

 

[oberkc]

I have been using insteon for 5 years, starting slow, but growing over that time to about 50 devices, including the ISY-994.  I have had two device failures in that time, arguably attributable to operator/installation errors. 
 
Yes, communication has been an issue for me, but once corrected, my system has a near-100% reliability.  Filters can be useful, as can access points.  The biggest difficulty is, in my mind, due to lack of diagnostic tools to identify the problem devices.  As a result, troubleshooting communication problems can be frustrating. 
 
I have never used Z-wave or UPB, so I cannot compare them.

 

[homejones]

We have a 2000 sq ft home with 95% Insteon light switches (this is about 25 light dimmer switches, 4 keypads, 1 InlineLinc, 1 OutletLinc, 1 RemoteLinc 2). Most of the switches are not dual band. We have a small 100amp panel with a single neutral bar so that helps with signalling not getting lost.
 
In the last 6 months since I've installed everything I've had nearly 0 issues. The only signalling issue I ever came across was when I temporarily installed an ApplianceLinc for holiday lighting and the device would intermittently not respond to a command sent from a keypad.
 
In short, VERY happy with the install. My wife loves the Insteon switches.

 

[goldband]

Very useful input, and I was concerned more about Insteon hw failure in the field than signalling. I already have an experimental project in the place we are renting while we build. It does include an ISY994 and a few  dual-band dimmers, as well as a couple of addressable LED bulbs. So far its working flawlessly, but I want to do more experimentation and keep my options open.
 
That brings me to another question- UD says they are supporting Zwave and Zigbee. Does that mean that if the worst is true in my case about Insteon hardware reliability I can incrementally replace dimmers and other control points with Zwave or Zigbee standard units and manage the whole with the ISY?

 

[homejones]

Very useful input, and I was concerned more about Insteon hw failure in the field than signalling. I already have an experimental project in the place we are renting while we build. It does include an ISY994 and a few  dual-band dimmers, as well as a couple of addressable LED bulbs. So far its working flawlessly, but I want to do more experimentation and keep my options open.
 
That brings me to another question- UD says they are supporting Zwave and Zigbee. Does that mean that if the worst is true in my case about Insteon hardware reliability I can incrementally replace dimmers and other control points with Zwave or Zigbee standard units and manage the whole with the ISY?

 
Without knowing UDI's product roadmap, I think the ISY will always primarily be an Insteon controller. Their support for Zigbee was mostly focused on integration with smart meters. On the Z-Wave side, they are only in an Alpha stage right now, so only time will tell.

 

[apostolakisl]

Very useful input, and I was concerned more about Insteon hw failure in the field than signalling. I already have an experimental project in the place we are renting while we build. It does include an ISY994 and a few  dual-band dimmers, as well as a couple of addressable LED bulbs. So far its working flawlessly, but I want to do more experimentation and keep my options open.
 
That brings me to another question- UD says they are supporting Zwave and Zigbee. Does that mean that if the worst is true in my case about Insteon hardware reliability I can incrementally replace dimmers and other control points with Zwave or Zigbee standard units and manage the whole with the ISY?

 
I really don't think that any of the new Insteon stuff has any hardware defects.  Certainly nothing lasts forever, but I don't see any complaints about things breaking either here or UD's website, and man it was all over the place 4 and 5 years ago.
 
You'll find with ISY that the company is very approachable.  You can communicate directly with the people who are making the decisions and they will actually implement suggestions (if they are good ones).
 
I believe homejones is accurate in saying that zigbee support is not really intended to be a universal thing but rather is targeted to a few items that are uniquely zigbee. The zwave thing I believe is going to be more global, but it is just getting started.  Zwave has some nice door locks that are lacking in the Insteon world for sure.  I also conversed with Michel about the Ube stuff and they expressed an interest in creating a module for it if indeed the product comes to market and looks good.  If I were ever going to transition away from Insteon to something else, based on the description at least, I would probably move towards the Ube, assuming Ube happens.

 

[picta]

I am in almost the same position as the OP-- starting a new house and looking for HA and security solutions. There is much to like about Insteon-- but what I can't square is the many vitriolic flames about Insteon hardware and Smarthome online and some of the more recent favorable comments such as these. What has changed? Was there a major shift in QA or design of parts, if so what and when? Has there been a change in management at Smarthome?

 
These are very good questions. I had installed my first Insteon switch in 2005 and hundreds of hours of frustration and thousands of dollars later I decided to ditch the product in favor of other technologies. The company has used early adopters as free labor testers and getting any kind of support was very difficult. Exchanging failed switches was a major headache after 30 days since purchase. The warranty was (and still is) only 2 years. I have not heard anything about significant changes made at the company to justify the reversal of trust issue.
 
However since other people seem to have a better experience today, you could consider trying a few devices once your house is completed. For a big house like yours it would be best to get a few switches of different technologies and see how they will operate in YOUR setup, this will save you $$$ and time in a long run. If you do choose powerline based technology, make sure you buy plenty of noise filters. Even if you get it tuned to almost 100% up time, one day there will be a new power consuming device that you wont suspect that will wreck a havoc in your lighting universe.