Is hardwired lighting control still the way to go?

[picta]

Thank you all for valuable feedback.

Quick update. I decided to go with Radio RA2. My electrician is familiar with it and his low voltage guy installs it. We're putting many of the switches into the utility room, so no wall clutter in the otherwise 4-6 gang locations, just keypads. I'm running both line voltage and low voltage to the keypad locations, so there'll be some options in the future if necessary. I'm leaving the kids rooms on conventional wiring. I can always drop in more radio ra2 switches in there. We'll see how it all goes

I still like the features of the loxone miniserver so I'm going to try to give it a go as just an automation controller.

I'll report back when things are running

Thanks again guys!

Hmm, if you are running the wire to central location it makes no sense to use wireless switches. I don't know how much the loxone stuff costs, but RadioRA2 sure will be more expensive than say Elegance for the similar design. The RA keypads are ridiculously expensive, like $40 per button. Also, installing the wireless relays in a close proximity to each other will reduce the coverage and you may have to add extra repeaters.
 
I don't have experience with loxone, but I do have Elegance. Based on their website it looks like a very well thought out product, being modular is a huge plus, you can expand the system with various modules and seems to cover all you may ever want in your HA system. Unless loxone is more than 1.5x of RA, I would certainly consider it, if I had to replace my current system.

 

[Neurorad]

For a new home I had the ground floor pre-wired for OnQ ALC (basically running Cat5 to the switch locations).  It added cost to the electrician bill (not insignificantly, I think I recall $50 a run or so), the switches are expensive (upwards of $100) and connecting them up is a bit of work (terminating the wires, etc).
 
However once it's in it has been ROCK SOLID.  I have ELK M1 controlling the lights.
 
I did all this before I had kids when I still had time on my hands and have honestly not touched it at all in 5 years now.  Our outside lights turn themselves on and off according to the dusk/dawn timing, inside garage lights turn on for 5 minutes when you open the door, foyer light turn on in the evening.  When I turn the alarm on to night mode all the lights turn themselves off.
 
Recently I switched alarm monitoring companies and had the panel off for a day. My wife was complaining left and right about why did and that didn't work, why weren't the outside lights on.  We honestly did not know which of the lightswitches in the house controlled the outside light since we had not touched them in 5 years. 
 
Anyway, I did hardwired and happy with it, but not sure if I would do it again. At the time UPB, Zwave and the likes were just starting.  If I was doing it all over now I would probably to that route and save cost and more importantly time which is a premium at this stage in my life.
 
One thing to note is that for a few years we had lengthy power outages (hurricanes and other storms) where we ran the house on generator for up to a week or 10 days.  I have a couple of UPB switches as well and they went apeshit due to the dirty power.  The hardwired ALC worked as always.

Welcome back, MavRic. Haven't seen you in a while. Good to hear ALC is still treating you well.

 

[zenix]

Also, installing the wireless relays in a close proximity to each other will reduce the coverage and you may have to add extra repeaters.

 
RA2 has no "wireless relays". While switches do talk one to another, they never re-translate the signal. It is more of a star topology, not a mesh per se, hence there is never any need to "optimize the network" or "troubleshoot the routing" - you just install your main repeater and auxillary (if necessary) and you are done.

 

[dima]

@picta, as zenix said, everything goes through the repeater.
 
I chose RA2 over Loxone for light control for a couple of reasons. First, Loxone required me to wire my whole house with low-voltage switches if I wanted to remotely control them. I was really keen on the idea, but that did force me to be all in. Currently, I'm planning to leave the kids bedrooms, bathrooms, guest room, etc. all on conventional wiring. If I want to automate them too (and I will eventually), all I have to do is swap out their dimmers for RA2 capable ones and I'm golden. Technically, I could have done the same thing with Loxone and use their Air stuff, but they currently don't have any retrofit Air dimmers, only relays. The other big issue for me was the dimmer rating on the Loxone dimmer extensions. Their channel ratings are 200-400w, however my Cree CR4 lights require 75W in-rush rating even though they are 9.5W parts and I could not get either Loxone or Cree to tell me that the Loxone dimmer design would not need to follow the stated in-rush rating. So, to wire up all my 6 and 4 pot rooms I'd have to double up on the home runs (and dimmer channels) which threw my electrician for a loop and my wife giving me "get your sh*t together" stares
 
So, RA2 it is. I've been playing with the Essentials software (took the online course, took me a few evenings after kids are in bed) and it's pretty straight forward. It sounds like the system will work well for me to start with. I like that I can fill in more pieces over time as I build up my install. Wireless occupancy and temp sensors are nice. With others, I'd have to get everything figured out before drywall goes up and I'm just not that organized
 
Only time will tell if I did the right thing. The final push towards RA2 was that he most common adjectives used to describe RA2 are "reliable" and "rock solid", which made me feel better about the fact that my wife will most likely not murder me (at least not due to lights not working) I'll re-evaluate the landscape in a few years. Given the popularity of RA2, if I ever want to replace it I can probably sell my gear and wouldn't have to junk it it completely.

 

[dima]

I should clarify that I'm really not trying to hate on Loxone I *really* like their system, and I wish I found a way to install it. They have a great product that will only get better with time. It just didn't work out for me this time.
 
I'm sure that Centralite would have worked out well, but like Loxone I would have probably had to do the whole house without future retrofit options (I believe). Their keypads are a little funky looking but I'm sure it would have worked out. Anyway, thanks again folks. I'll post pictures of the install once it's done

 

[zenix]

@picta, as zenix said, everything goes through the repeater.

 
It's even better than that. What I like most about RA2 is that it has layered architecture. It means that -
 
* every dimmer and switch always works as a any other dumb dimmer and switch, even if everything else is down or off;
* every keypad still works and can toggle programmed scenes even if main repeater is down or off - the only thing you lose is status lights;
* everything works 100% even if you local network is down or repeater is not connected to the network;
* iPhone and Android apps work even if internet is down;
 
Oh, and there is a choice of apps for RA2, as well as it can be integrated into many other systems if you decide to do that later on.