Lighting Automation Technologies: If you got to do it all over again

[forgets]

I am in the market to install 60 loads in my house. I prefer a wireless technology, and price is not important. I prefer to go with the most reliable solution. Is RadioRA still considered the leader in reliability?

Thanks, please let me know your opinion.

I'm one of the one's that went with RadioRA after reading all the other stories others have posted here over the years. My RadioRA system has been rock solid, though i don't know if it's doable for 60 loads.. I'm pretty sure the max is 48 (24 + 24 additional with the chronos). My system was built with used switches mainly from ebay, and i've never had a problem with any of the switches, so that should speak to the reliablility of it. I hear they've really improved on a lot of the problems with radiora2 (for instance the new repeater combines repeater / serial functions in one) and i hear its even more rock stable than the previous generation, though my system has never missed a command. If money wasn't as much of a concern, i'd go with radiora2 now, and wait until elk / hai support it ( it's still too new for them yet ) but barring that, with some patience and luck you could probably find some cheap original radiora switches on ebay like i did.

 

[mrbelvedr]

What will Homeworks2 be able to do that RadioRA2 will not be able to do??
What are the benefits of one over the other? I know that Homeworks supports wireline whereas RadioRa2 is purely wireless... any other differences in how it can be controlled? Is one more powerful than the other in terms of macros or programming?

 

[sic0048]

Well due to the limited info that I have been able to garner online about Jetstream, I decided to take the plunge and be a guinea pig. I’ll let you know my thoughts down the road….

I'd love to hear your comments. Most of what I have read have been positive - with the exception of the switch feel. Of course that is something that people can argue about with every manufacture. So people like a hard action, some a soft, some inbetween, etc, etc, etc,.

I've heard good things about the reliability of the system however and Centralite has recently released some new devices for the Jetstream line, so obviously they are still putting in some R&D into the line.

 

[Neurorad]

What will Homeworks2 be able to do that RadioRA2 will not be able to do??
What are the benefits of one over the other? I know that Homeworks supports wireline whereas RadioRa2 is purely wireless... any other differences in how it can be controlled? Is one more powerful than the other in terms of macros or programming?

"HomeWorks2" is called HomeWorks QS. HW QS Wireless won't be available for another year, and QS Wired prob 6-12 months after that.

QS will be more powerful, in terms of programming. I've been told that QS will allow 'conditional programming', and Ra2 will not. I don't know if this will eventually happen, though, as conditional programming will be necessary for the 'green' aspects of Ra2.

Conditional programming was recently explained to me in an AVS thread, starting in post #66:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....8211&page=3

Search cocoontech, AVS, and remotecentral.com forums for 'RadioRa2' for some relatively thorough discussions of Ra2.

There's an argument that hardwired lighting control is superior to RF, that it's more reliable, but I haven't heard of any Lutron RF failures to speak of.

Basically, from my understanding, conditionals consist of 'if -> then' programming. For example, 'if time = sunset then switch landscaping light on'. Conditionals, in my opinion, would be required for Ra2 as it's being marketed as a 'green' technology, with daylight sensors and possible thermostat incorporation.

 

[jeblis]

How come the votes dont add up to the number of votes shown in the poll?

because some people might have "voted null" (which means their vote wont show up under an item) just to see the results


and now that I look at it that would be alot of people!

96 people by my count.... The poll needs to show a category named "Too lazy to actually think about it.."

It needed an "I don't have one yet" option.

 

[RichardU]

Well due to the limited info that I have been able to garner online about Jetstream, I decided to take the plunge and be a guinea pig. I’ll let you know my thoughts down the road….

I'd love to hear your comments. Most of what I have read have been positive - with the exception of the switch feel. Of course that is something that people can argue about with every manufacture. So people like a hard action, some a soft, some inbetween, etc, etc, etc,.

I've heard good things about the reliability of the system however and Centralite has recently released some new devices for the Jetstream line, so obviously they are still putting in some R&D into the line.

Here are some thoughts right now. I have 41 Jetstream devices working right now. The lights go on every time you push the button. They are also controllable by my URC remotes from anywhere in the house. Only have two problems. One switch is too far away to be controlled, on the other side of a 12" concrete wall. The other problem is button failures. The original bezels were too weak and some have failed. Centralite sent me replacement bezels and I have been replacing them as needed. It's a bit of a PITA, but a small price to pay considering they have been completely reliable otherwise. Any questions?

Also, what new Jetstream devices have been released?

 

[carfield1980]

Well it is hard to vote, as I have not used any of those except x10 and Z-wave.

If I could start over in a new house I would probably go with UPB, it seems to be the most mature DIY options with many available Devices.

StevenE

This is true. I have not used none of them. I really do not know what to vote.

 

[blmxm]

Well due to the limited info that I have been able to garner online about Jetstream, I decided to take the plunge and be a guinea pig. I’ll let you know my thoughts down the road….

I'd love to hear your comments. Most of what I have read have been positive - with the exception of the switch feel. Of course that is something that people can argue about with every manufacture. So people like a hard action, some a soft, some inbetween, etc, etc, etc,.

I've heard good things about the reliability of the system however and Centralite has recently released some new devices for the Jetstream line, so obviously they are still putting in some R&D into the line.

Here are some thoughts right now. I have 41 Jetstream devices working right now. The lights go on every time you push the button. They are also controllable by my URC remotes from anywhere in the house. Only have two problems. One switch is too far away to be controlled, on the other side of a 12" concrete wall. The other problem is button failures. The original bezels were too weak and some have failed. Centralite sent me replacement bezels and I have been replacing them as needed. It's a bit of a PITA, but a small price to pay considering they have been completely reliable otherwise. Any questions?

Also, what new Jetstream devices have been released?

sic, I posted some of my initial impressions here: http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php...c=15419&hl=
Richard, could you elaborate on how your remotes are set up. I have an older harmony and was considering the RCV 5000 from centralite. Any info you could shed on IR control, or whatever setup you have would be appreciated.

 

[RichardU]

Richard, could you elaborate on how your remotes are set up. I have an older harmony and was considering the RCV 5000 from centralite. Any info you could shed on IR control, or whatever setup you have would be appreciated.

Sure. I'm using eight MX-900 remotes with three MRF 350s. I have two media rooms in my house and a central control room. Each of them has an MRF 350 which are all wired to each other. I have also wired two 250 antenna units to extend range. So there are five receiving units, any one of which can receive an RF signal from any of the MX-900s. Each MRF-350 has six IR emitters. One of the emitters is attached to an RCV 5000 in my control room. The RCV 5000 is then attached by serial cable to the Serial Bridge.

To turn a load or scene, just look up the load or scene in the manual for the RCV 5000. It will give you a number that turns it on and another number that turns it off. Then go into the programming software for the remote, import the RCV5KNRCLITE.ccf file. Then locate the number you looked up and program whatever key you want for that number. Press the key on the remote and the light will be on before you can remove your finger. I hope that's clear.

My only problem is that I haven't figured out how to toggle a light with one key. For example, say the "F1" key on the remote sends the ON command for Scene 1. Then the "F2" sends the OFF command. I could program the F1 key to send toggle ON or OFF depending on the current state, but I don't know how to read that state.

Now could you describe how you interfaced your Jetstream with your ELK? I am only using ELKRP, but I would like to be able to trigger lights. I think I might need to buy another Jetstream serial bridge, but then how do I talk to the ELK since my serial port is currently connected to a Ethernet card? Do I need another serial port for the ELK? Is there any other way?

Thanks, R

 

[blmxm]

Now could you describe how you interfaced your Jetstream with your ELK? I am only using ELKRP, but I would like to be able to trigger lights. I think I might need to buy another Jetstream serial bridge, but then how do I talk to the ELK since my serial port is currently connected to a Ethernet card? Do I need another serial port for the ELK? Is there any other way?

Thanks, R

I use the ELK serial expander. http://www.elkproducts.com/products/m1/M1XSP.htm
I have two of these. One that attaches to the Centralite bridge, the other for an RCS TR-40. There is a specific firmware version for the XSP you need to use for Jetstream, so be sure to update to that in addition to setting the jumpers. The docs online are a quick read and describe this well. Then it is just a matter of mapping devices and scenes to the corresponding memory locations in the ELK under automation/lighting.
Prior to pulling the trigger on Jetstream I spoke with them about using the RCV and whether I would need a second bridge, if I wanted to convert IR to Jetstream commands. I was told that you can use a “Y†cable from their bridge to both the ELK and the RCV. However there was a caveat that it would only work “one wayâ€. Now I thought the RCV only went IR to 232 anyway, so I’m not sure what was meant by that, and have yet to follow up. Anthony in Centralite’s support is who I was speaking with. If you can indeed “Y†the cable then only one XSP and Centralite bridge would be needed. My intentions are to locate the RCV with the rest of the home theatre since everthing I have right now is RF, and have macros to set the lighting for “movie†etc. Of course considering I have a tablet PC running RMS, along with my phone, it’s really getting lazy to want to have the remote as well…

I like the integration so far with the ELK, and use rules to flash outside lights to confirm keyfob actions, turn on spots for aesthetics, based on outdoor detector triggers, and use the centralite alarm flash if those outdoor detectors have repeated violations within a given time. The flash on the outdoor spots lights up the entire 2 plus acres making the house shall we say, quite noticeable. They are a much better attention getter than the ELK strobe out front. The ability to use the vacation scene when the ELK is armed away, creating random lighting, is also nice.
If you find anymore info on using a “Y†cable, please fill us in. That is still a bit down the list for me. And if there is anything unclear, or that I can shed more light on let me know.
Thanks,
Mark

 

[xYike]

Reliable and cost effective are kinda tough. If you have common wires UPB is reliable but on the expensive side. If you do not have commons Z-Wave is a good protocol. Insteon is getting better and X10 is still viable for some as well.

COMMON WIRES ... what is meant by that? I was 85% through building my house when I stumbled on Z-wave technologies and it opened my eyes to the whole HA world. I've been trying to learn as much as possible. If I did not have common wires, couldn't I couple them?

 

[oberkc]

COMMON WIRES ... what is meant by that?

I believe this refers to any box having line, neutral, and ground. Depending on wiring techniques, some boxes in some houses don't have neutrals.

 

[nwavguy]

Search cocoontech, AVS, and remotecentral.com forums for 'RadioRa2' for some relatively thorough discussions of Ra2.

RadioRA 2 is a bit difficult to search for if you put the proper space before the "2". Doing that here causes the CocoonTech search to fail completely as the search engine sees the "2" as a single term which is likely too broad. Some people call it RA2, some call it RadioRA2, some call it "RA 2", some call it by its proper name "RadioRA 2". I've found lots of posts regarding the original RadioRA but not very many about RA2.

If you have any links to any good discussions of RA2 I'd love to read them? I posted some things here:

Lutron RadioRA 2 for DIY

To me, the big stumbling block to DIY RA2 use, appears to be that Lutron has "locked out" certain functionality unless the system is configured by a trained commercial installer with their proprietary PC software. Otherwise RA2 looks great for what it does and the dimmers/switches are price competitive with the higher quality UPB and Z-Wave offerings. I voted for RadioRA in this survey as there's no choice for RA2.

 

[cwintermeyer]

After years of dealing with the limitations and idiosyncrasies of X10, I've found INSTEON to be reliable and affordable and a MUCH more stable solutions for my needs. I control the INSTEON in my home with Homeseer, and I've got my Mom's house set up with INSTEON and controlled using the Smarthome SmartLinc since Mom's needs are simpler than mine.

 

[jingai]

I use Insteon now, and if I had to do it over again, I wouldn't change. It has gotten more reliable over the years (specifically with the PLC 2313U), but it was never really unreliable for me like X10 was. Really any time I do have an issue it usually ends up being a problem with my Indigo actions/triggers.

The only thing I'd do differently is wire up the house for Insteon entirely from the beginning. When we were building our house, we figured we could just replace it all later, but I think we would have saved a lot of time by putting it all in place at once. Then again, all of our units would be several years old by now, so maybe we did the right thing.. lol..

Really this is just another vote for Insteon, particularly combined with Indigo. Fantastic software!

-J