Monitoring service or self monitor

I use Alarm Relay. They are always on the ball, super friendly, always available. And relatively cheap. They have always contacted police or fire when we have had false alarms, and once when our boiler smoked out the house. Luckily we were near before they busted down the door. I would highly recommend them.
 
I had looked at self monitoring, but there are too many variables with cell phones. You could be out of cell reception, you don't get message, and your house burns down, floods, etc... If you have friend, family near by, you can rely on them, but it is better to leave to professionals.
 
But I agree, you want to make it hard to break in, and warn people that it will not be a walk in the park. Deterrence is your best friend.
 
newalarm said:
I use Alarm Relay.
I looked at them, but they have one of these web sites that is very spare on details, because I'm guessing they want to get you connected to their sales staff as soon as possible.  For example they advertise $8.95 but that is for dial up. How much is Internet monitoring?  At Next Alarm I bought and adapter for $50 and that was the only added charge. At Alarm Relay they make it clear $8.95 is ONLY for dial up, but they don't mention anything else, so have no idea if they even do it.
 
I think it is 22$ for dial up and GSM.
 
Their customer service is really helpful.
 
I never considered internet monitoring. I had heard multiple warning posts about it. We have VOIP, so it falls under same problems.
 
DELInstallations said:
For those that deal with end users, I'm not too impressed. Alarm Relay refused to answer me if they were UL and to what extent, so much so that they stopped replying to any further queries from me about their service. I don't think too highly of their setup and can't seem to find their UL certificate or to what extent, so that's a red flag, same with their CSAA listing. They also market under their "hidden" company to dealers and the like....why wouldn't they provide their certificate information? Every other CS does upon request.
The Alarm relay Site says "UL-Listed and CSAA Five Diamond Certified"  Now can they lie? Certainly.
 
newalarm said:
I think it is 22$ for dial up and GSM.
 
Their customer service is really helpful.
 
I never considered internet monitoring. I had heard multiple warning posts about it. We have VOIP, so it falls under same problems.
The Internet monitoring basically is the same as VoIP with a specialized modem to connect to the panel.  It contacts the alarm company for every arm, disarm and faults, so the line is tested several times per day.  If the panel can't communicate with the alarm company, it will tell me.  I also get an email from Next Alarm if Next Alarm is not connected to the VoIP adapter.  So it is pretty robust. More so than dial up at least.
 
Ask for a copy of their certificate. Look it up under all their names they offer their services commercially. Doesn't exist....and I'm trade and have access to all of the places to look. Remember, CSAA isn't mandatory and there is outlay to the CS to maintain their compliance. The UL standard they are meeting is mandatory and not all are made equal.

Speak to any other CS (and I have, being trade) and they have no problem providing details to be looked up or a copy of their current certificate. If AR/Watchlight or their other companies don't or can't provide that to a trade customer prospect, what does that say? Every call was either directed to a salesperson or needed to be escalated to a "technician". Not how it's supposed to work.
 
I've had to deal with AR many times as I started working with a lot of "orphaned" systems that were put in by "some guy" security and then monitored by them. Horrible to get panels templated properly or correctly, let alone any other item that is standard SOP for any commercial CS. I had zero confidence in a bunch of devices I added to some NX panels and were being monitored by them as the RC didn't match what they believed it should have been.
 
So Del, what companies do you recommend?
 
As I mentioned, as end user, I have not had problems with AR. But I am not in the trade and do not do this professionally.
 
ano said:
The Internet monitoring basically is the same as VoIP with a specialized modem to connect to the panel.  It contacts the alarm company for every arm, disarm and faults, so the line is tested several times per day.  If the panel can't communicate with the alarm company, it will tell me.  I also get an email from Next Alarm if Next Alarm is not connected to the VoIP adapter.  So it is pretty robust. More so than dial up at least.
Ano,
 
This information is not true. The ABN is strictly dialer capture and not bidirectional. It can't be. If it were, then every panel they wished to takeover would require reprogramming, which is definitely not the case. The only supervision is when they miss the heartbeat for an extended period of time, which while it's nice, it's no different than putting a line cut monitor on a traditional security system. The ABN is NOT a Linksys PAP2T.
 
The problem with the ABN and NA's method is that there can be any form of issue downstream, from network latency or congestion, all the way to an unplugged alarm panel telco cord and the end user would not know otherwise until either a dialer test failed (IF programmed, because everyone does that when required on a fire account, let alone standard burg).
 
The device is no different than POTS with the exception of an occasional poll from a third party.
 
Also, keep in mind NA is not themselves UL listed, however their contracted "parties" (meaning CS owned/operated by another entity) may be. Nextalarm is a reseller, not a CS. Their ABN's are NOT UL listed. A lot is buried within their fine print and what they offer as a service vs. industry standard practice and lack of transparency.
 
newalarm said:
So Del, what companies do you recommend?
 
As I mentioned, as end user, I have not had problems with AR. But I am not in the trade and do not do this professionally.
It depends really. At minimum, I'd recommend a competent person overlook a panel's program that was DIY or similar (put in by a friend of a friend). Seen way too many elementary or simple mistakes or items that should be reporting but aren't, bell timeout or single ring....
 
There's people out there that monitor at fair prices, using UL CS and competent people and there's also trunkslammers. The question is what is the relative cost and are you being sold a bill of goods for "interactive" services that aren't necessary or any competent CS already offers. The largest thing I say is do your homework and call around, not just what google or you can turn up under a CS that will deal direct with an end user. People are more concerned about being able to "control" their system and reporting compared to who is actually supervising the signals. I think that is my key point here.
 
DELInstallations said:
Ano,
 
This information is not true. The ABN is strictly dialer capture and not bidirectional. It can't be. If it were, then every panel they wished to takeover would require reprogramming, which is definitely not the case. The only supervision is when they miss the heartbeat for an extended period of time, which while it's nice, it's no different than putting a line cut monitor on a traditional security system. The ABN is NOT a Linksys PAP2T.
 
The problem with the ABN and NA's method is that there can be any form of issue downstream, from network latency or congestion, all the way to an unplugged alarm panel telco cord and the end user would not know otherwise until either a dialer test failed (IF programmed, because everyone does that when required on a fire account, let alone standard burg).
 
The device is no different than POTS with the exception of an occasional poll from a third party.
 
Also, keep in mind NA is not themselves UL listed, however their contracted "parties" (meaning CS owned/operated by another entity) may be. Nextalarm is a reseller, not a CS. Their ABN's are NOT UL listed. A lot is buried within their fine print and what they offer as a service vs. industry standard practice and lack of transparency.
The ABN is definitely monitored, and if that is disconnected from the Internet, I get an email in about 40 seconds.  So this means the ABN is providing "phone line" voltage to the panel.  The panel also monitors for phone line voltage from its side, and if that is missing, the consoles start beeping ("Phone line dead trouble") and I get an email from the panel.
 
When the panel is activated or deactivated it phones out and can tell if communications is established. The actual phone number the panel "dials" is ignored by the ABN, but the panel DOES know if it is connected to the monitoring center.  If it isn't I get a "Communications trouble" on the consoles, beeps, and an email. 
 
So is this 100.00% with 100 decimal places certain its all working?  Probably not, but there certainly are some checks in place to find a problems when they exist.  Yes Contact ID has its limits, but what do you expect for a protocol designed 20+ years ago, maybe way older than that.
 
Ano,
 
You're misinformed and incorrect here.

I've had to dissect these things and their operation when a customer wanted to propose a similar solution with multiple panels, both when they first came to market and during more recent times. I realize your understanding is based off what you observed with your install,  but it's not how the unit and NA function. 20 years in the trade and building private listed CS with all formats of communication methods and routes here. No conjecture or reading into how the "white box" functions with the alarm panel, all facts here.
 
The ABN will provide voltage whether or not there is a viable connection to the CS, sure it'll die if there's no network connection, but what happens if there are other network issues (as is typically common).  In your case, if you're getting a response in 40 seconds that there's no issue, fantastic, but that's not what our testing and our end user's testing verified. This is part of the issue when people install a cell dialer on the same system that uses VOIP or "digital phone service". Voltage, irregardless of a viable connection. That in itself will render any line cut monitoring or failover impossible. A big blue alarm co paid out a 9 digit settlement with that being part of the evidence presented against them (system design faults). In your experience, the only item that NA is seeing is whether or not they get essentially a ping back.
 
The panel does not know it's connected to a CS. Physically impossible. The ABN is dialer capture, remember? All it needs to do is emulate a receiver handshake and kissoff and the panel is happy. That's the nature of the beast. You provide that and the panel will always remain happy, even if the signal isn't sent. You'll never get a FTC on the panel, which is fact. This is also sometimes a concern with dialer capture style cellular communicators. If your panel sends a non-standard or one off RC, it will not be retransmitted or it will be sent as essentially garbage to the CS receiver downstream. This is why dealers have to pay specific attention to what dialer format is being used and the supported RC's. CID is not a guaranteed fix (configurable zones and RC's for the same is one big reason, same with extended system data).
 
This is also the reason why NA does not require the end user (or whoever is installing the ABN) on an already functional panel to reconfigure the dialer, report codes, primary or secondary phone lines etc. The ABN is not bidirectional passthru communications. Physically impossible, otherwise it'd be an ATA, just like VOIP. This isn't unique to NA, as cellular dial capture units and even what is referred to in the business as "panel savers" do this. Facilitates a takeover on a locked out panel.
 
And finally, not every panel out there will supervise the phone line. If they do, it's great, but if not, or more commonly, a nuisance delay before the line fault is discovered, then neither system is going to notify the end user of an issue. That means the panel can be physically disconnected from the ABN and NA and the end user will never know or will be delayed until the nuisance delay expires or the connection (usually intermittents) clear and restore.
 
If you'd like to discuss CS construction, operation and communications routing and formats, feel free to call me. I'm out there. But how NA and their ABN work are not how you described. Part of the reason why it is not a UL listed communications method.
 
newalarm said:
I use Alarm Relay. They are always on the ball, super friendly, always available. And relatively cheap. They have always contacted police or fire when we have had false alarms, and once when our boiler smoked out the house. Luckily we were near before they busted down the door. I would highly recommend them.
 
I had looked at self monitoring, but there are too many variables with cell phones. You could be out of cell reception, you don't get message, and your house burns down, floods, etc... If you have friend, family near by, you can rely on them, but it is better to leave to professionals.
 
But I agree, you want to make it hard to break in, and warn people that it will not be a walk in the park. Deterrence is your best friend.
 
I use Alarm Relay as well.  They cover my home, office, and in-laws house.  I have about 5 years experience at home, 3 at the office, and about 4 at the in-laws.  Never have they failed to do exactly what they are supposed to do.  We have never had a "real" alarm, but have had quite a sufficient number of accidental alarms to feel very comfortable that they get the alarm and follow the plan as you dictate.  You basically provide them a flow chart of how you would like them to respond to an alarm and they execute it exactly as you have selected.  Examples, include, dispatch, then confirm, confirm then dispatch, confirm, never dispatch, just dispatch, and so on.  Confirming could be calling one number, or calling successive numbers should they fail to get an answer.  Pretty much whatever you want within reason.  For example, a panic/silent alarm dictates dispatch only, not confirming at all.  My 2 year old son managed to figure out how to activate that and we got exactly what we asked for, 2 squad cars in like 2 minutes.
 
NO system is perfect, period.  Industry groups, the government, etc. like to create various laws/regulations/best practices.  These things are actually grounded in some reality and are sort of well intention-ed.  But don't think for a second that the bulk of these things aren't dictated by profit and/or CYA.  In other words, make all kinds of laws about a bunch of very very low yield protective equipment that generates huge profits for an industry, or, on the flip side, allow industries from not really thinking about how to actually protect you but rather protect themselves from not getting sued when they fail you.  The most important thing for certain industry groups is to get a congressman in their pocket.
 
ano said:
I looked at them, but they have one of these web sites that is very spare on details, because I'm guessing they want to get you connected to their sales staff as soon as possible.  For example they advertise $8.95 but that is for dial up. How much is Internet monitoring?  At Next Alarm I bought and adapter for $50 and that was the only added charge. At Alarm Relay they make it clear $8.95 is ONLY for dial up, but they don't mention anything else, so have no idea if they even do it.
 
Internet monitoring is $8.95/mo for Alarm Relay.
 
drvnbysound said:
Internet monitoring is $8.95/mo for Alarm Relay.
Sounds like a good deal.
 
Lou Apo said:
You basically provide them a flow chart of how you would like them to respond to an alarm and they execute it exactly as you have selected.  Examples, include, dispatch, then confirm, confirm then dispatch, confirm, never dispatch, just dispatch, and so on.  Confirming could be calling one number, or calling successive numbers should they fail to get an answer.  Pretty much whatever you want within reason.
I really like that idea.
 
I will definitely check them out when mine expires.  I've heard other good things about them as well. 
 
@Lou,
 
Can you post the features of Alarm Relay.  Do you pay for it by the year?
 
Here been using NextAlarm now for a few years (~ 10?) for two homes and I have been happy with their service paid for by the year. 
 
It is more than $8.95 per month (well and less than $20).
 
I do get email notifications and can get granular with it if I want. 
 
It has been a few years that I looked at Alarm Relay and base price was good but any options were extra (like internet and emails).
 
I did a personal alarm monitoring company experiment here checking out a few different services one year a few years back and posted my results here on the forum.  
 
Ended up with an illiciti business oriented alarm monitoring company.
 
I did pay a year in advance and it was around $8.95 per month.  They then upped original contract 3 months in to the first year.  They stated that I requested additional services which I didn't and basically emailed me telling me that they had made a mistake on the yearly price.  Even though I had paid for the one year of service they then put me in to a non release contract (very difficult to get out of) so I ended up taking them to the State's attorney's office which basically didn't do much until I opened up a case every week with them (literally).  The company though had already been fined for illicit business practices and changed their name to continue their business then continued to do basically the same thing as the owner of the company was the same person.  They still are in business today and do cold calling and advertise low monthly rates.  I did switch back to Next Alarm after initial issues (3 months of a 1 year contract).
 
BTW it looks like they changed their name again.  They are known today as A.S. Alarm services based in Kirkland, Washington.  Thinking though they use different names all of the time.  Kind of sad that the state allows these kind of illicit businesses to thrive.
 
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