I am buying a house that was prewired for a HA system. There are cat5 and rg6 cables everywhere! Looks like the builder ran out of money and never got the HA system components installed even though all of the pre wiring is complete. All of the wiring runs back to panels in the control room. All of the lights in the house can only be turned on/off from temporary switches that were installed and labeled in this control room. There are no light switches anywhere else in the house, only cat5s stubbed out of the walls. The house is meant to have audio/video, security, lights and more run off this system. Being new to HA, I am looking for suggestions on which systems could run a house like this without breaking the bank. My first/biggest goal is to be able to turn lights on in each room, but I would like the system to be able to handle the a/v and security so I don't have to upgrade later. Please help!!
Need help/recommendations for wired HA system controller and components
- Thread starter Jeremian
- Start date
There are many different ways you can accomplish this, and it would help if you post more details. How many temporary switches are in the control room? Where are the cat5 wires from the rooms are terminated? Can you post a picture of the control room? Are you looking for a DIY solution or would you rather have a professional to install your systems?
Thanks for the reply Picta. There are 24 temporary switches in the control room and there are about 16 more labeled Romex wires that were not switched but control various fans and lights. Many of the locations that are stubbed out for switches in the different rooms have 2 cat5s and 1 green Lutron wire. Many of the doors and windows also have 2green lutron wires stubbed out in tge top corner. shades? security? what else could they be for? I'm curious if the green wire can be used for normal, hard wired switches, or for control systems other than Lutron. I would guess the latter is possible. The cat5 and Lutron wires are ran back to where the temp switches are and are hanging loose in the bottom of the control area, right under the temp switches. I can send you an email with the pics if you'd like but cant seem to post a pic here through my iphone. you can email me at [email protected]. All the switches are bunched together and mounted together in a framed in area in the control room. Looks like it was going to be where some type of control panel hardware will be mounted. I feel pretty confident in a DIY situation but would not be opposed to a pirfessional doing the install if the cost was right. My problem with having a professional do the install is that they all seem to only push certain brands, while I'm looking for what type of system meets my needs best. Any help pointing me in the right direction and/or cost guesstimates would be much appreciated!
:nutz:
h34r:It sounds from your description that the house was pre-wired for Lutron homeworks, which is a very good lighting system, but also not cheap and is only available from certified lutron dealers. The green wire is most likely for shades and occupancy sensors. Typically it has a cat5 and a power wire, so it can be used in many LV applications. I would recommend getting a quote from lutron on the lighting system. It will be more difficult to get a different brand of hard-wired lighting in because they all have slightly different "geometry" of termination, but certainly not impossible.
The other alternatives besides smart bulbs is to replace the temp switches with some DIY technology switches, like UPB or zwave, and install decora switches in the rooms, that will close/open zones on a hardwire controller like Elk or HAI, and the controller will in turn operate the switches. If you decide that you may later want to install the lutron system, HAI controller can be integrated with it. If you need lights in the house right away while you are deciding on the permanent solution, you can buy a few inexpensive z-wave switches like Aeon microswitch or GE/Jasco wall switch and a few remotes. You can even wire the cat5 from the rooms to a bank of 12V switching relays that will in turn operate the temporary switches (it may be the cheapest and even permanent solution, but you'll need help from an electrician to ensure safe installation)
The other alternatives besides smart bulbs is to replace the temp switches with some DIY technology switches, like UPB or zwave, and install decora switches in the rooms, that will close/open zones on a hardwire controller like Elk or HAI, and the controller will in turn operate the switches. If you decide that you may later want to install the lutron system, HAI controller can be integrated with it. If you need lights in the house right away while you are deciding on the permanent solution, you can buy a few inexpensive z-wave switches like Aeon microswitch or GE/Jasco wall switch and a few remotes. You can even wire the cat5 from the rooms to a bank of 12V switching relays that will in turn operate the temporary switches (it may be the cheapest and even permanent solution, but you'll need help from an electrician to ensure safe installation)
Sounds like they wired it for Centralized lighting. When I was researching this stuff to replace an aging LiteTouch system, it looked like the Centralite Elegance XL was the most cost effective. New panels, controller, and keypads was cheaper than upgrading just my existing LiteTouch controller. Just replacing the LiteTouch controller with a new one was around $6k, plus a required service call and labor since I can't just buy the controller.
I'm not sure what the Centralite costs through a dealer/installer though. If you're a saavy DIY type, you can probably get someone w/ a distributor account to get you the equipment and install it yourself.
The way it works is that you have panels that contain relay and dimmer modules, and these are controlled by the centralized controller. The centralized controller is wired out to low voltage keypads with Cat5, and those keypad buttons are each programmed to control each load or execute scenes.
Where are you located?
I'm not sure what the Centralite costs through a dealer/installer though. If you're a saavy DIY type, you can probably get someone w/ a distributor account to get you the equipment and install it yourself.
The way it works is that you have panels that contain relay and dimmer modules, and these are controlled by the centralized controller. The centralized controller is wired out to low voltage keypads with Cat5, and those keypad buttons are each programmed to control each load or execute scenes.
Where are you located?
I am located in Vero beach, fl. Thank you all for your help. All this great info gives me hope that the lights can become functional, one way or another, for a reasonable price. One more question... It sounds like none of the recommended systems will integrate with the security or a/v system. That would have to be a whole separate system in the future? Where the walls are stubbed out for a tv, there must be 10-15 wires coming out of the wall. Several cat5 and several rg6 in each location. These wires appear to be going back to a closet under the stairs where I'm assuming a rack of av equipment will be located. I guess this is meant to be used along with several IR repeaters. Without tracing/toning the wires I can't be sure, but I also assume there are lv wires going from this rack room under the stairs to the control room, intended to be run from some sort of HA system. I guess the HA system is not necessary to get this up and running. Any suggestions on how to proceed there?
HAI and Elk are the systems that can provide security and automation solutions. Out of the 2, HAI is better in integration with Lutron or Centralite, both can support DIY technologies. You can consider up-scale systems like crestron or control4 that have better integration with AV, but they are not DIY and require dealer's intervention for anything. A lot of people add a software controller, like CQS, Homeseer or HaikuHelper to fill the gap in integration with AV and other devices.
Jeremian said:
Hmm, that may set you back some big $$$. In AV land you can get a decent speaker for $50, or a really good one for $50K. Similar range applies to AV equipment. There is a separate thread on this forum discussing relatively inexpensive whole house audio from monoprice for up to 36 zones. HAI offers its own audio controller, and it can also integrate with Russound systems. If you want to connect all TVs you may need a video matrix switcher.
AVS Forums is a good place to talk about AV stuff. From what I've seen, there are really two major classes of people on there. There are the ones that have unlimited money and will buy only the best and most expensive stuff, and there are the people that look for "deals" to get 90% of the sound/video quality at a very small fraction of the price.
For me personally, I'd go with Monoprice speakers for walls/ceilings (The 4101's are awesome, especially at $50/pair), and BIC speakers for free-standing (from parts-express.com). I just bought a Monoprice zoned audio system, and I'm impressed for the price. It's like 30% of the price of buying Russound.
Also, I wouldn't worry about tying the lighting/audio/video into home automation when you buy it. Just make sure it's all got serial ports or network connections so you can integrate it later. For me, I use a Micasaverde Vera Lite. It's $150, super flexible, and if a plugin doesn't exist, you can write one (with help from the people on the forums) or pay someone to do it for you. Coupled with iRule for iOS or Android, and you've got yourself a system with similar capabilities to Control4 or Creston, with an interface that's just as pretty. And YOU have control over it.
For me personally, I'd go with Monoprice speakers for walls/ceilings (The 4101's are awesome, especially at $50/pair), and BIC speakers for free-standing (from parts-express.com). I just bought a Monoprice zoned audio system, and I'm impressed for the price. It's like 30% of the price of buying Russound.
Also, I wouldn't worry about tying the lighting/audio/video into home automation when you buy it. Just make sure it's all got serial ports or network connections so you can integrate it later. For me, I use a Micasaverde Vera Lite. It's $150, super flexible, and if a plugin doesn't exist, you can write one (with help from the people on the forums) or pay someone to do it for you. Coupled with iRule for iOS or Android, and you've got yourself a system with similar capabilities to Control4 or Creston, with an interface that's just as pretty. And YOU have control over it.
Security: HAI
Speakers: Monoprice
Lighting: Lutron
Picta's post on using UPB or Zwave switches at an alternative to Lutron is a great idea ASSUMING you want to take the time to get the system up and running yourself. If time is a factor as well as cost, Lutron for the lights since that is what the layout was designed for combined with HAI would get you up and running probably within a week of the installer starting with minimal changes. This assumes all the wires are good.
Whole home audio and matrix TV (assuming it was all home run since everything else was) could be phase 2.
Speakers: Monoprice
Lighting: Lutron
Picta's post on using UPB or Zwave switches at an alternative to Lutron is a great idea ASSUMING you want to take the time to get the system up and running yourself. If time is a factor as well as cost, Lutron for the lights since that is what the layout was designed for combined with HAI would get you up and running probably within a week of the installer starting with minimal changes. This assumes all the wires are good.
Whole home audio and matrix TV (assuming it was all home run since everything else was) could be phase 2.
Bal said:
Everyone here is going to have their own opinions.
For example, I'd say:Security: ELK
Speakers: Monoprice
Lighting: Centralite Elegance XL
HA Controller: Vera (although I know a lot of people here use CQC and a ton of other things)
Remotes/Touchpanels: iRule for Android or iOS.
The reason I say Elk is because they are more DIY friendly, and it's likely you'll have a separate HA controller anyway, even with the HAI.
The is no universal answer what is "better". Every situation is different. But in the OP case, the choice of lighting system is most important, and the choice of HA controller will be based on that decision. For example, Elk does not support Lutron homeworks, and it only partially implements Elegance protocol.
picta said:
Neither Elk nor HAI are particularly good at HA though, mostly because of UL restrictions for the security system component. I just moved, and bought another Elk. It does zero HA. It does security only, and has a relay board that I can control with the HA controller (for garage doors, fireplaces, etc). I bought it because it's flexible in how I can set things up, far more than any other system I've played with. All of my HA happens on my HA controller. Elk and HAI don't support my LiteTouch system, but my HA controller does after I spent 4 hours writing a plugin for it.
My point is, what does it matter if your security panel supports your lighting system? I don't think it does matter if you're going with an HA controller, because that's where the magic happens. The important piece here is your HA controller, and making sure it can talk to all of your components (security, lighting, AV, etc). The HA controller is what ties it all together.