Newbie Questions

[NoisyOldRadiator]

I am currently using a CADDX NX-8 for security in my home. I would like to eliminate the CADDX and in it's place use an ocelot and SECU's.

Would I be able to use the security contacts PIR's etc. for home automation when the security system is not armed? If it's a software issue which software should I use. I have been following along here and the ADI support forums and I see that the most popular software seems to be Homeseer but I'm thinking of setting up a Linux box again with a low end PC just for HA. Any software suggenstions for something like Homeseer on Linux/Apache?

I wired my home for home automation placing 2 speakers in each room via home runs to my HA "closet". I have been using these speakers for home audio but I would like to use them for HA announcements and audio. Is this possible?

How are your speakers set up to make announcements? How many speakers can you use at one time? I see there is hardware out there that makes it possible to use something like 6 or 8 pairs of speakers at the same time. Do they work? Will it damage my amp??

I think I have asked enough questions for now but hey no worries I've got plenty

 

[electron]

Welcome board NoisyOldRadiator,

I will let the others answer the security/speaker questions as I am in a hurry right now, but I do have a suggestion if you want to go with Linux. Check out MisterHouse, it's probably one of the bigger projects using the Linux platforum. There are some other smaller projects, search for "x10" and other variants on freshmeat.net.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I am currently using a CADDX NX-8 for security in my home. I would like to eliminate the CADDX and in it's place use an ocelot and SECU's.

Not real sure on your statement here. Are you saying that you want to totaly eliminate the NX8 board, battery backup, keypads, sirens, etc... and replace them with an Ocelot and SECU16? Is this because you already have an Ocelot and such hardware?

If so would you then just use your door/window sensors and motion sensors with the SECU16 inputs?

I don't see any advantage in doing this. If you just use an Ocelot/SECU16 you would have to come up with a way to arm and disarm it as well as a battery backup. Also, all the programming will have to be handled by the CMax logic which, although not impossible, can be a chore considering the NX8e and DL900 software is already setup for security zones and such.

Also, do you plan on dialing a monitoring service? If so, the Ocelot does not offer this option.

I guess I am mainly curious what advantage you think you would gain going this route? Your sensors would be compatible with the Secu16 since they are just contact closures anyway. You may have problems if you plan on using EOL or end of line resistors though. I hold the opinion (an unpopular one at that) that EOL resistors are not worth the hassle in a home environment. In other words what are the chances that a "professional" theif is going to go through the trouble of trying to bypass your alarm system by hacking into the wiring?

Anyway another statement I'm a little confused with is the one stating what software you should use with this system. You don't want to go PC based with a security system for reliability. If you were going with an Ocelot you should only depend on its CMax logic for doing the critical "security" functions and maybe have Homeseer monitor its variables and do some "non-critical" functions such as page you on an alarm.

 

[NoisyOldRadiator]

Not real sure on your statement here. Are you saying that you want to totaly eliminate the NX8 board, battery backup, keypads, sirens, etc... and replace them with an Ocelot and SECU16?

Yes that is exactly what I want to do.

Is this because you already have an Ocelot and such hardware?

Thats not the only reason but it is one of the reasons.

If so would you then just use your door/window sensors and motion sensors with the SECU16 inputs?

Yes.... But I also want to use the same contacts and PIR's for home automation when the alarm is not being used.

I don't see any advantage in doing this. If you just use an Ocelot/SECU16 you would have to come up with a way to arm and disarm it as well as a battery backup..


The advantage is to use the contacts for home automation when I need it. ie: front door contact trigger.... garage door monitor.... bathroom PIR for lights & audio and so on and so on.


battery backup

I'll figure something out or I'll go without it.

Also, do you plan on dialing a monitoring service? If so, the Ocelot does not offer this option.

No....no central station


Also, all the programming will have to be handled by the CMax logic which, although not impossible, can be a chore considering the NX8e and DL900 software is already setup for security zones and such.

What about MisterHouse instead of CMax?


You may have problems if you plan on using EOL or end of line resistors though.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean.

I hold the opinion (an unpopular one at that) that EOL resistors are not worth the hassle in a home environment.

I agree.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

NoisyOldRadiator:

Let me explain some things that may change your game plan.

I currently have an Ocelot and Secu16. I also have a Caddx NX8E with a 16 Zone Expander and Relay output boards. I also have a dedicated Homeseer computer.

I use the Caddx strictly for my home security. This includes three keypads, three indoor motion sensors, two glass break sensors, battery backup, and siren plus an array of door and window sensors. This operates as a stand alone system, in other words its "basic" functions as a home security system do not depend on anything else.

I use my Ocelot for things like dawn to dusk sensor (turn lights on/off), washing/drying machine monitors, fountain monitor, etc... I like the fact that the Ocelot is a PLC (Programmable Logic Controller) which runs basic logic without any moving parts (i.e. doesn't involve a PC).

I also have a Homeseer computer that does all my "ginger bread" non-essential tasks and monitors. This includes paging/emailing, voice announcements, camera monitoring, etc... If my Homeseer computer crashes, my basic essential systems will still function.

I also use Homeseer to MONITOR all variables from the Caddx and the Ocelot. For instance I have Homeseer announce when a door or window is opened. These doors and windows are actually statused by the Caddx system, but because Homeseer can read these zones as well as arming status I can create some complex events in Homeseer that can be triggered by these Caddx variables.

If I wanted to do so, I could have lights turn on based on the motion sensors that are monitored by the Caddx as well!

I also have Homeseer monitor my Ocelot variables. For instance I have Homeseer announce when my washer and dryer are finished.

Note that all these Homeseer functions are performed in parallel to the particular systems basic functions, i.e. they are non-intrusive to their performance! Thus I have the best of both worlds here.

The reason I mention all of this is so you may consider keeping your security system and just have Homeseer monitor those variables so you can do the same.

Also some other notes:

CMax is a logic program that the Ocelot uses to run internal programs. It is a basic "ladder logic" program, nothing like Mister House and Homeseer.

Mister House can not be run by the Ocelot, rather it needs to be run on a computer based system, thus making it unreliable (compared to an Ocelot or Caddx) as a security based system.

I use an Elk 800 Audio Amplifier with Elk 70 Speakers for my home automation related announcements. Note that the amplifier requires a DC power supply (I believe 12 to 24 volts DC).

I just ran my audio (speaker) output from my sound card to this amplifier. Note that this is not stereo and I only ran the right channel to this amp. I mention this because if you had a lot of speakers you could just purchase another amp and use the left audio output if needed.

This would be the cheapest method for "automation" sounds and announcements (they are not good for music). Of course there are a lot of other choices for speakers and distribution systems out there, but basically the plan is to just use your pre-amp speaker output from your Homeseer (or whatever software you use) computer. You can even add another dedicated sound card just for this purpose if you want.

Well, hope that answers some of your questions,

BSR

 

[NoisyOldRadiator]

Thank you for taking the time to give me such a detailed answer BSR.

I also use Homeseer to MONITOR all variables from the Caddx and the Ocelot. For instance I have Homeseer announce when a door or window is opened. These doors and windows are actually statused by the Caddx system, but because Homeseer can read these zones as well as arming status I can create some complex events in Homeseer that can be triggered by these Caddx variables.

This is what I would like to do. I didn't know it could be done as discribed. I will dedicate a PC for my HA and use Homeseer. Please note I have the NX-8 not the NX-8E. Does this matter?

What expansion card do I need for the NX-8 to communicate with Homeseer?

Do you know af a site where I might be able to look at some code for Homeseer or Ocelot?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Here is what you might want to do. Homeseer has a free fully functional trial run period. I would download that after you get your NX8 system communicating with your computer serial port, then download and install the free Caddx Plugin and then play around with with this package. You can also download the free Ocelot plugin and play around with that as well (note that both of these plugins are available via the Homeseer updater program that you run after Homeseer is installed).

I'm not an expert on the Caddx options but I BELIEVE that the only difference (or at least one of the major ones) between the NX8E and the NX8 is the NX8E has the serial port on board. That being said I also believe if you have an expansion board such as the NX584 with your NX8 system you can then communicate with your Homeseer computer. You may also need the serial header cable (its about six bucks from Worthingtons) with that board. Once you have this set up and working with your NX8 you will need a "null" modem serial cable, basically its a serial cable with two DB9 serial connectors that will connect the NX584 (via the header cable) to the computer's serial port. I also used a Cat5E RJ45 to serial adapter and used my existing Cat5e runs since my system was in a closet away from my Homeseer computer.

Here are some links for you to review:

The description of the Caddx Plugin and setup instructions for the NX584 (and NX8E) is HERE. Basically these are the settings you need to program into your NX8/NX584 so it can communicate with the plugin and the computer's serial port.

The description of the cable setup between the serial header and your computer is HERE. This shows how to make your own cable to use adapters with Cat5e and what connections are needed if you want to use a serial cable directly. Note that you can test this connection using the free DL900 software from GE. This software will program your NX8 without using the cumbersome keypad (uses nice menu setting options then lets you download this program into the NX8).

If you need the DL900 software you can get it HERE. The user name is "webuser" and the password is "care4u".

HERE is another link showing how to set up the DL-900 software. Also, you may want to browse through the posts for the Homeseer Caddx support forum HERE.

As for the Ocelot I suggest you get used to programming the CMax software for it by first looking at the manual, which has some very good examples. You can also get the manual online HERE.

Also, look at the Applied Digital forums for the CMax support HERE. They also have other support forums for the Ocelot and associated expansion modules as listed HERE.

Cocoontech also has a TREMENDOUS advantage over other forums in that we have are very fortunate to have Guy Lavoie as a member here. Guy is THE authority on Applied Digital products and CMax programming techniques as well as a very good electronic hardware expert (yes I think VERY highly of him ).

You will need to use the serial cable that came with your Ocelot to connect to your Ocelot to your computer's serial port to download the CMax programs to it. Note that if you want you can use the SAME technique and run this over Cat5E as well using the same configuration as the Caddx cable described above.

Once you communicate with your Ocelot I suggest using the mcsOcelot plugin to have Homeseer read the variables. You can get this plugin via the Homeseer updater (note that there are two Ocelot plugins for Homeseer, I suggest using the mcsOcelot one). This plugin also has a support forum available HERE.

Well, thats enough to get you started. The nice thing about all of this is you don't really have to purchase anything (well maybe the NX584) to test this all out. Other than that Homeseer is the only thing you will have to purchase if you like it because the two plugins are free.

Please double check on the Homeseer Caddx support forums if the NX584 is what you need to communicate between the computer serial port and your NX8 as I do not have this system (I just use the onboard serial port of my NX8E). I don't want you to purchase anything that will not work for you! :lol:

Good luck,

BSR

 

[DavidL]

BSR is BACK!!!
Whewwww, what a post.
Glad to see you back crankin out the help!

 

[jlehnert]

You may have problems if you plan on using EOL or end of line resistors though.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean.

Description of EOL resister.

 

[NoisyOldRadiator]

BSR

I just wanted to say thank you for the tutorial. It will take me some time to sift through it and figure it all out but I just wanted to let you know that it has not fallen on deaf ears.

I have the NX-548 and I am going to begin set up this evening... I haven't decided on the software yet (Homeseer or Misterhouse) or even the operating system for that matter but I'm leaning towards a Linux box with Misterhouse.

To all that have offered their assistance:

I would just like to say thanks. I find it refreshing to know that there are people like yourselves that would take the time and effort to help a total stranger receiving only gratitude in return.

Noise

 

[NoisyOldRadiator]

BSR

What does this statement mean?

Mister House can not be run by the Ocelot, rather it needs to be run on a computer based system, thus making it unreliable (compared to an Ocelot or Caddx) as a security based system.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Mister House can not be run by the Ocelot, rather it needs to be run on a computer based system, thus making it unreliable (compared to an Ocelot or Caddx) as a security based system.

The Ocelot is meant to be a "stand alone" programmable logic controller. Its main task is to perform basic logic functions to control and monitor items without any external (computer) system. It does this very well as it has no moving parts and is very reliable. People just leave it plugged in and never have to touch it, update it, reboot it, etc... it just runs.

You program the logic that the Ocelot will use with a program called CMax. CMax isn't like visual basic, its just a basic "ladder logic" program that does simple logic setup and then that program gets downloaded into the Ocelot and that is what the Ocelot runs (independently of anything else). You use a computer to setup the CMax logic, but once the program gets downloaded into the Ocelot you don't need a computer system anymore.

That being said, the CMax capabilities are limited and do not offer some of the features that Homeseer offers such as web server, Email, voice announcements, etc... BUT you can have Homeseer READ the values and variables from the Ocelot and use those values to trigger events such as voice announcements. In other words Homeseer does not "run" on the Ocelot, rather it runs on a separate computer, reads values from the Ocelot (via its serial port) and performs Homeseer functions based on those values.

This adds some great functionality to your Home Automation system rather than just using the Ocelot only.

Misterhouse can be compared to Homeseer in the example above EXCEPT I do not know if Misterhouse has the capability to read the values from the Ocelot (in other words I do not know if it has a "plugin" to do so).

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I would just like to say thanks. I find it refreshing to know that there are people like yourselves that would take the time and effort to help a total stranger receiving only gratitude in return.

This is what Cocoontech was set up to do. Its our sort of "motto" here!

 

[NoisyOldRadiator]

I've got the NX-8 talking to Homeseer, unfortunatly I have not had the same success with DL900.

Is the setup the same?
Is it ASCII?

Any ideas?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Make sure Homeseer is shut down when you try to connect with the DL-900 software so you don't have two pieces of software accessing the same serial port.

Also under Program, Connect, Direct Connect, make sure you have the correct serial port, baud rate and yes, select ASCII.

Also, under Advanced, Serial Port Settings make sure your dialog box matches the one below (no matter what your serial port number is that you are using). Of course change the baud setting to match yours though.

Also, make sure you entered a valid user name and serial number so it can access the NX8 system.