Omni LTe Automation Erratic or Non-Existent

[southpeoria]

I began working with HAI in 1996 and installed my own system in 1998. Friends asked me about home automation and I installed systems for maybe 10 of my friends, and automated a range of requests from lighting to security of access gates at one friend's mountain property. I say this only to indicate that I've had a fair amount of experience with HAI systems.
 
Up until a few months ago, my LTe (4.0b) system was functioning normally. I have a combination of perhaps 20 X-10 switches and 3 UPB lights which had all been working according to an automation program in HAI.
 
Suddenly, none of the lights respond to the automation program. From my PC (Windows 10), I can manually turn all of the lights on and off, dim and brighten, etc, but the automation program won't make them run on the schedule I have automated.
 
I would appreciate any help the Forum might provide, and will be most happy to upload whatever files are needed, or provide any other information that anyone would find helpful to solve the problem.

 

[pete_c]

@South Peoria PM
 
Welcome to the forum.  Here using an OmniPro 2 panel.
 
Are you using Windows 10 to connect to your OmniPro 2 panel?
 
Are you using a TW-523 with your panel.  Do you have a signal meter for your X10?  Can you send out an X10 command and watch your signal meter?
 
 
 
Here mostly UPB and just a few X10 devices and ZWave and Zigbee devices.
 
Utilize a Volp dual phased TW-523 controller here wired directly to the fuse panel.

 

[southpeoria]

Thanks Pete. Yes, Dealer PC Access is installed on my Win 10 desktop for connection to the Omni LTe panel.
 
The two interface modules that are connected are a "X-10 Pro 2-Way Powerline Interface" with no description of who made it (bought from Home Controls, San Diego) and then a Leviton UPB Powerline Interface Module 36A00-1, also purchased from Home Controls. Both interface units are at least 5 years old.
 
Seems odd that both units would be bad at the same time...would think that if X-10 interface is bad, at least the UPB lights would be responding.

 

[pete_c]

Well if PCA works fine with your connection to your panel relating to X10 and UPB then it is not a PIM issue.
 
You can also send commands out to turn on units via your consoles or keypads or Omnitouch screens.
 
Are you writing about automation lines in PCA or automation software which controls the Omni panel?
 
Here utilize Homeseer and Home Assistant to control the Omni Panel and automation lines in PCA plus some automation in Homeseer and HA.

Here utilize console keypad and touchscreens (OmniTouch 5.7es and Omnitouch Pro running on tabletop touchscreens) plus Homeseer Touch screens on same type of tabletops.
 
What software do you use for automation if any?
 
Could be noise on your power lines.  I have had those issues before with X10 and UPB.
 
I did move my PIMs to separate breakers and circuits right off of the fuse panel and ran a cable from there to the OmniPro 2 panel.
 
That said I also have a couple of remote UPB Pims with ethernet access to test signal strength.  Check your signals with Upstart.
 
I also utilize CM11A's with Homeseer and newest plugin has great diagnostics (noise et al).
 
My out door AC compressor went out last year and before it went out it was generating all sorts of noise on the power line that I could see with the old Elk X10 signal meter.  Here switched over to a dual phased Volp TW-523 which is a TW-523 emulator on steroids.  I only really use X10 these days for my Christmas lighting and landscaping lighting.  Still using those old Black and Decker outdoor modules for this stuff.
 
A few years ago neighbor installed an in ground pool.  The UPB noise coming in to the house here (300 feet away to the transformer) took down my UPB network.  Installed a PCS (HAI) UPB repeater and that fixed that problem.
 
My in retrospect my guess is that you have some power line noise issues.
 
Go slow step by step to diagnose your noise problems.  Circuit by circuit using a laptop and a UPB PIM (Upstart) and if you can get an Elk meter do the same with that.  
 
Let us know how it goes.

 

[RAL]

I agree with Pete's suggestion about noise on the power line.  Have you installed any new LED bulbs recently?  Some brands are terrible in terms of the noise they inject into the power line.

 

[southpeoria]

Answering your questions one-by-one...
 
I don't have any consoles or touchscreens...all commands come from Dealer PC Access and there is no other controlling software, but I can run UpStart to check UPB signal strength and noise.
 
Do you think I should replace what seems to be a generic x-10 PIM with Jeff's latest emulator (I think he built a later version of the TW-523)?
 
How does the PCS repeater install? Where did you put it?

 

[southpeoria]

Answering your questions one-by-one...
 
I don't have any consoles or touchscreens...all commands come from Dealer PC Access and there is no other controlling software, but I can run UpStart to check UPB signal strength and noise.
 
Do you think I should replace what seems to be a generic x-10 PIM with Jeff's latest emulator (I think he built a later version of the TW-523)?
 
How does the PCS repeater install? Where did you put it?

 

[pete_c]

I can run UpStart to check UPB signal strength and noise.
 
Test it with a laptop / PIM on different circuits in the house.
 
Do you think I should replace what seems to be a generic x-10 PIM with Jeff's latest emulator
 
Here went to Jeff Volp's devices when first available and tested a few for shipping to the EU long time ago.  Initially purchased his X10 single phase booster (but not for the HAI panel).
 
The standard HAI X10 TW-523 should be OK.  For a bit HAI did sell a two TW-523 to one HAI serial port device.  Volp's XTB-IIR high power 2 phase repeater has been working fine over here now for many many years.  Thinking too that Jeff will rent you a high end signal tester.
 
How does the PCS repeater install? Where did you put it?
 
The PCS/HAI repeater is the same device.  I installed mine on the side of the main fuse panel and it is connected to the two phases of the panel.
 
I did the same with the XTB-IIR.  Used spare breakers for these two devices.
 
On the bottom of the fuse panel installed 4 duplex outlets also connected to separate breakers   I use these for the UPB Pim, CM11A. (2 spares / overkill).
 
The XTB-IIR and CM11A and UPB PIM today just utilize old telephone wire.  They used to be cat5e / baluns. The telephone wire works just fine and fits better inside of the panel than the cat5e.
 
Inside of the panel left the old X10 PZZ01 Passive blocking filter which I never removed.
 
I have a couple of UPB floaters around.  I made a UPB wireless device where I can just plug it in anywhere in the house and check the signals with my laptop.
 
Guessing though you just have a bit of noise on your powerline.

 

[LQtechvn]

Maybe your program send many commands at the same time

 

[southpeoria]

Maybe before I get too far into trying to trace signal noise problems, I should find out if the board itself is bad. Would a reset of EEPROMS and reset of RAM help? I have all of the program and setup information saved in PC Access, so I could upload that to the controller, right?  Any other way to test the board itself?  It just seems as if it might be the board since I can control the UPB lights from UpStart on my PC, but not from HAI.

 

[pete_c]

I have all of the program and setup information saved in PC Access, so I could upload that to the controller, right?
 
Yes.
 
It just seems as if it might be the board since I can control the UPB lights from UpStart on my PC, but not from HAI.
 
Not sure if you are using the same UPB PIM on your HAI panel and connected to your PC when you are using UpStarat.
 
Earlier you mentioned that the light controls worked fine with PCA except not with the programming lines.
 
Thinking if the board was out it cause much more issues.  Much more common are power line noise issues with your X10 and or UPB lighting.

 

[southpeoria]

I will work on this a bit more and report back

 

[southpeoria]

The UPB PIM connected to my PC has a USB B to USB A cable, while the UPB PIM connected to the LTe controller is ethernet, so I can't swap. For some reason, now some of the time the HAI controller runs the automation program, and sometimes not, or sometimes just some lights, not others. PCA does send X-10 commands which are acted on, but no UPB commands from PCA are acted on.
 
Testing circuits with a Monterey tester shows most signals around 1.5v, noise averages 3-7m on most circuits, but 20+m on a circuit with UPS. Lots of BSC, BBK and BCY errors!

 

[southpeoria]

Pete, you said in your Sept 4 post "The PCS/HAI Repeater is the same device". Do you mean it does the same thing as JVDE XTBIIR...I thought the XTBIIR was just for X-10...if I get that, do I have to get thge PCS/HAI repeater to strengthen the UPB signals? Is there a less-expensive way to strengthen the UPB?

 

[pete_c]

The UPB PIM connected to my PC has a USB B to USB A cable, while the UPB PIM connected to the LTe controller is ethernet
 
Typically / historically the UPB PIM has used a serial connection.  The PCS UPB USB PIM is using a serial to USB internal device.  The SA UPB USB device is pure UPB.
 
The HAI UPB is a serial device with an RJ-12 (6 wire) connection to your Omni panel.  It only uses 4 of the 6 wires.   It isnot an ethernet connection.
 
All of the ports you see on your panel along the top section except for one are serial ports.  There is one ethernet port there and two LEDs that constantly blink with ethernet traffic.
 
You can purchase a second HAI PIM and get an RS-232 cable for it and plug that in to an RS-232 USB cable.  That said your USB UPB PIM will suffice for testing using Upstart and a laptop.  Here I have spare UPB PIMs on line serial to ethernet connected to my network.  One is on the second floor and the other is on the main floor.  I do spot check the UPB network for noise with the spare UPB PIMs.    
 
UPB and X10 are both power line protocals but different.  The panel connects to the TW-523 X10 controller via an RJ-12 (I think) connector but only uses 4 of those wires.
 
Testing circuits with a Monterey tester shows most signals around 1.5v, noise averages 3-7m on most circuits, but 20+m on a circuit with UPS. Lots of BSC, BBK and BCY errors!
 
UPS's are noise generators.  So are bad motors, some LED lights et al.  Little transformers...list goes on and on.  You can go circuit by circuit to find out where the noise generators are.  
 
I have 6 UPS's in the server section of my basement which is sort of adjacent to the fuse panel.  I have a power line tester on the rack and see no noise from the UPS's.  
 
Jeff's dual phased TW-523 - JVD E XTBIIR - is just an X10 TW-523 on steroids and will be levels above using one TW-523 (HAI) on one phase.  Call him or write to him about your X10 power line noise or just read on his web site.