Premise Premise VS HAI Omni

[harrisgrey1]

Hi Everyone,

Am coming back to this forum after a long time, and it is exciting to see so many new posts and developments.

Last weekend at a party I came across two friends of mine, one who is using a Premise based home automation controller, and the other is using an HAI Omni Pro controller. There was a long discussion as to which one is better.

Obviously the factors that work in favor of Premise are the cost and the nice programming stuff it has, which makes it very flexible. The friend who has an Omni said that since it is PC based, it would not be very reliable (susceptible to virus attacks, occasional reboots etc), whereas the Omni being a pure "hardware" controller would be much more reliable.

What does everyone else think? I am sure there might be some who use both. I would love to hear from you all on your thoughts.

Harris

 

[pete_c]

Personally I use both HW (have two OPII's set up) and SW (using HS with one setup).

Many years ago enjoyed being to automate my lights; today would rather let the OPII take care of the lighting and not be dependant on a PC to do that. (along with security).

On the other hand when someone rings the doorbell at my home; it becomes an event with pictures and emails which I do on my software HA box.

If this event didn't occur for any reason (like a software issue) it wouldn't bother me.

I personally don't think either is better. Its a personal preference.

I wouldn't depend on an HA software application to provide security for any reason at this time.

Many folks on this forum are addicted to HA and the more they can do to automate their home the better they feel. (like using both HW (Elk and HAI) and software).

 

[etc6849]

I think a windows PC can run for years at a time if it's a dedicated HA only machine; however, it would need industrial grade components that have been around a long time (i.e. not the latest chip set out there); I even use an SSD drive on mine so I never have to worry about HD failure. There are security issues since to make a windows machine stay on 100% of the time, you have to disable automatic updates (else it will reboot 1-2 times a month).

That said, I believe Premise is 100% reliable and can run for years at a time, if you have mature dedicated hardware and make OS adjustments. Keep in mind, the last update for Premise was 2006 and any bugs have been posted here (and there's not that many).

Waynedb has some handy tips found in this post for building an industrial grade PC:
http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php...st&p=130973

 

[Steve]

As my father in law would say, you are comparing pizza pies and giraffes. Have your Omni friend ask ask the Premise guy how well his premise system monitors the house and calls authorities if needed. Have the Premise guy ask the Omni guy how well the TTS works. The Omni and Elk are primarily very good security panels with automation capability. Premise and other SW is just HA. If you are absolutely 100% sure you will no way ever have a need for security or alot of I/O (like door/window/motion sensors, etc) and just want automation then any of the good stable software packages on a dedicated pc will run just fine. But I would NEVER use that for security. If you have a need for security AND HA then the Omni is the better choice and then Premise or other IN ADDITION to give you the supplemental functions.

 

[pete_c]

I've been playing more with "industrial style" MB's lately. (server style mITX boards).

Historically and even today use these for my firewalls. They never break. Most recently with SSD's or CF cards. I did have a few issues with a few MFG's of some early mITX "industrial server type motherboards relating to bad caps. I used these for touch screens.

For many years I utilized VIA Epia mITX boards in a couple of automobiles. Never had a problem with them. In the early 2000's used a physical card which was a watch dog timer to reboot the firewall if it crashed. The mITX boards that I'm playing with today have built in watchdog timers.

My intention relating to what I wrote is not to say one is better than another. It's more in reference to my preferences and historicals from first "playing" with HA software in the late 1990's-early 2000's.

If I look some into my HA pile of "stuff" I still have a small pico PC with a battery backup from the early days of Windows (think it has Windows 3.1 on it). It was connected to an X-10 controller and controlled my lights with a basic schedule. It worked well for me then.

If you gave me a choice of only one or the other today or took one or the other away I would prefer to keep my HAI OPII.

(in the 80's my alarm panel with speech was "missing" the built in X-10 controller which was the next step in the development of said alarm panel per many conversations with the owner of the company that I bought the panel from).

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

As my father in law would say, you are comparing pizza pies and giraffes. Have your Omni friend ask ask the Premise guy how well his premise system monitors the house and calls authorities if needed. Have the Premise guy ask the Omni guy how well the TTS works. The Omni and Elk are primarily very good security panels with automation capability. Premise and other SW is just HA. If you are absolutely 100% sure you will no way ever have a need for security or alot of I/O (like door/window/motion sensors, etc) and just want automation then any of the good stable software packages on a dedicated pc will run just fine. But I would NEVER use that for security. If you have a need for security AND HA then the Omni is the better choice and then Premise or other IN ADDITION to give you the supplemental functions.

Couldn't agree more with Steve. One additional point to make, with the Omni, not only does it do security but it will use all of your security points for automation purposes.

 

[etc6849]

I think the best option is to have both. If you go with Elk, 123 posted a nice driver that integrates it well with Premise.

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be hard to use 123's driver as an example and build one for Premise that works with all of the features/functions of an omni controller. In other words, there's no reason why Premise couldn't have two way communication with a security system, allowing it to use the output of various sensors and system status from that system.

http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php...amp;showfile=62

PS: Premise could monitor your house and call authorities, too :huh: All you need is a serial modem and a driver for Premise (I think there is a driver in the old Premise forum) and some additional programming. Premise can already email or text your phone with built in functionality which is handy.

If you need a bunch of I/O devices, there are plenty of serial controllers that have addressable contacts (i.e. http://www.weedtech.com/ or equivalent). Obviously there's no offsite monitoring with this option, but who wants to pay a monitoring fee? I'm not saying that this is the best option and it probably isn't for most people, just that Premise can do whatever standalone controller xyz can.

 

[pete_c]

I think the best option is to have both. If you go with Elk, 123 posted a nice driver that integrates it well with Premise.

Just think then of your Elk being a multi-HA Device controller with one connection to Premise. You could connect your lighting, HVAC, etc to your Elk panel and control all of the devices with one interface.

 

[chucklyons]

Nice discussion...I wonder which giraffe or pizza I would....?

I'm a hybrid, I have to say. I'm in the process of selling my house and purchasing one a bit closer to a city (I currently live in the boonies). One of the 'requirements' the missus put on the list, was a security system. Well, I went back and forth and concluded the hybird was the best approach, largely for the reasons already discussed in this thread...

However, one of the geek's requirements was it had to integrate into Premise and it had to be monitorable. At this point I'm still thinking about the Elk. 123's work is always solid. His module vs dll approach gives me hope of it being updateable in the future. Premise has a native driver for the Caddx, which will be solid, but any changes to the Caddx means a lot of scripting workarounds...

It seems monitoring is available for either of the systems (or any alarm system) Safemart Security Monitoring and does it for the DIY market..

Still doing some research, (like does 123's Elk module support Insteon?), but it will definitely be the hybrid approach...

 

[pete_c]

I utilize most if not all devices hanging off the OPII. A few custom scripts relating to the IR sensors, lighting and HVAC. I also utilize XaP. So many scripts read if XaP, if OPII IR then do this and that.

Let us know how Safemart is. Last week connected a neighbor to NextAlarm. I needed to call customer service and make a couple of quick changes. I noticed quick responses and changes were done. This is in contrast to my last phone calls relating to open tickets etc (slow).

 

[etc6849]

Pete, this is what I was getting at; it makes sense to hook most things to the Elk (if supported) and use the Elk as a bridge to Premise. I can't say I would purchase expensive add-ons to the elk interface if my current r232 modules didn't work with it (however, I think most do). I think you need both systems to have a complete home automation system. This is my ultimate plan after my next move.

The only issue with an Elk or similar system is it's not as nice media or interface wise (as far as I know, I don't actually have one yet). For example, Premise can serve music to a matrixed a/v switcher and control your entire home via a single web interface. You can use xml to build a very nice cover art gui for bluray covers (if you bought something similar to the new 150 disc sony changer with rs232 control) and easily integrate it within Premise. Iframes can be used to add ip based cameras to the web interface or anything else you could want. Just about any peice of hardware that supports rs232 control (provided you make a basic driver which is easy in the vbscript like environment) can be made to work with Premise which makes it very open. You can also use just about any device as a touch screen controller (athough windows based devices can use the nice activex automatically generated webpage).

Just think then of your Elk being a multi-HA Device controller with one connection to Premise. You could connect your lighting, HVAC, etc to your Elk panel and control all of the devices with one interface.

 

[pete_c]

I've never utilized my HA system to serve media files. Historically it just provided TTS to all of the sound zones.

Historically looked at proprietary software with touch screen interfaces for my media.

I utilize HS and the HAI plugin - today being sold / provided with HSPro but stuck in time from about 7 years ago.

The HS HAI plugin gives me some basic functionality via the RS-232 interface but not really much.

Thermostat functions don't work, UPB functions don't work, Z-Wave functions don't work. Only thing which kind of works is the X-10 (which I am migrating from to UPB), motion sensors, etc (from 7 or so years ago).

On the other hand with its limited basic so so functionality I can still integrate it with HS events / XaP events etc. IE: While I have an extensive 1-wire network I still utilize the HAI temperature/humidity sensor readings. I don't have HS control the thermostat functions (historically an RC80 and today an OmniStat 1000).

 

[chucklyons]

I think you need both systems to have a complete home automation system.

etc is dead on - true home automation, in my pebble-sized mind, is being able to bring ANY system into a 'single' interface. Having 1-'n' different systems cobbled together with kludgey interfaces (kinda reminds me of Oracle Financials in the late 90's...a different interface for each accounting area; accounts payable, accounts receivable, and so forth), doesn't bring it together. I think HA isn't being able to independently run different areas of your home in different ways. Rather, it is being able to run the differents areas of your home seamlessly, in a single way.

Premise is fairly open - the core engine is tightened down (I suppose you could call that proprietary?), but the rest is available for all to modify or create. If someone had the time, or the money, I suppose the biggest improvement would be rewriting the Automation Browser (AB) to remove the ActiveX element. Quite honestly, now that Windows CE is handling ActiveX just fine, I don't see a real pressing need to do it. And let's face it - MS will be still be going strong long after I am going...(and Premise will still be running my house...I suppose I should show my wife how to load 123s next xdo?)

Given my primary reason for Insteon (John's excellent module) is for outlets, if the ELK module handles that I would go that route. If it doesn't, I'd probably go the Caddx route. In the Elk case, I don't see a huge motivator with migrating from the individual drivers I currently use (Aprilaire, Lutron, Insteon, etc) to an integrated ELK driver.

In either case, it would all fall under a single interface. The Premise Interface.

(ugh. sound like a politician!)

 

[cornutt]

I agree that it's not a like-to-like comparison. It really benefits you to have a panel for security; you may be able to get a discount on your homeowner's insurance by having a security system, but it has to be UL-listed for the application, and I don't know of any PC-based solution that would qualify. The Omnis are listed and I presume Elk is too. On the other hand, a PC-based solution can do more complex automation logic, act as a media server, and has better Internet functionality. Plus you can hack it in ways that you can't hack a panel. A hybrid solution really seems like the ultimate, where you have a panel communicating with a software-based system and you can get the advantages of both.

 

[xlurkr]

I think the best option is to have both. If you go with Elk, 123 posted a nice driver that integrates it well with Premise.

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be hard to use 123's driver as an example and build one for Premise that works with all of the features/functions of an omni controller. In other words, there's no reason why Premise couldn't have two way communication with a security system, allowing it to use the output of various sensors and system status from that system.

Premise has a driver for HAI panels.

-Tom