RadioRA 2 Switch Choices

[rsw686]

I'm looking at replacing my UPB switches with RadioRA 2. I just completed the BLAST online training and am deciding which switches to purchase.

According to the spec sheets I can use either the RRD-6NA or RRD-10ND. Both of these have a neutral wire so they should work with CFL and LED bulbs. With the price the same I like the idea of the RRD-6NA adaptive dimmer for future proofing. However I'm debating if I should just go with the higher watt rating RRD-10ND as most LED bulbs state they work with foward phase dimmers.

Looking around the house the max I have is 5 pot lights with a 90w bulb max on a switch. With derating in a 2 gang box I will be right at the 450w max for the RRD-6NA. However I'm planning on using the LED equivelant of a 60w bulb so in reality this should be no issue.

I also have a few locations with 3 way switches where I want a keypad and dimmer.  It looks like there are two ways to approach this.

1. Use a hybrid keypad (450w intergrated dimmer) and remote dimmer. This will provide direct control with the remote dimmer. On the downside the hybrid keypad must be placed on the load side of the the switches. I am slightly concerned in one room as I have 4 pots and the hybrid keypad would be going in a 2 gang box. With derating I am left with only 350w and technically I should have 360w.

2. Use a Keypad and a 600w adaptive dimmer. This option costs around $35 more, however the keypad can be placed at either switch location and the watt rating is higher. Additionally I will have a visual indication of the dimming level. On the downside I'm not sure what kind of delay there will be as the keypad is operating the switch wirelessly.
 
Any thoughts from those that have installed RadioRA 2?
 

 

[az1324]

I would go with reverse phase/adaptive.  I believe they say 600W dimmers support 150W of LEDs with no derating required for the LEDs since the heat issues and the surge currents are exclusive.  If the LED bulbs are around 20W then you should be fine with up to 7 90W equivalent LED bulbs per dimmer.

 

[dgage]

For my dimmers I think have exclusively purchased the 6NA and the hybrid keypads and primarily LED loads. Very pleased.

 

[rsw686]

For my dimmers I think have exclusively purchased the 6NA and the hybrid keypads and primarily LED loads. Very pleased.

 
That is probably the way I am going to go. When I look at Lutron's website the Cree and Philips LED bulbs I have are stated to be compatible with the 10ND. This means they will defiantly work with the hybrid keypad as long as the neutral wire is connected.
 
Looking through the software I don't see a way to disable dimming for a switch like you can on UPB. It looks like I'll need to replace these bulbs unless setting the default value to 100 and the fade rate to 0 makes it somewhat work.

 

[dgage]

I don't think you can disable dimming although I do have some of the dimmers setup as switches since I didn't order enough switches and remote switches initially. It works fine but every once in a while I accidentally press the dimming up part of the switch and then have to turn off and back on. For stairs, bathrooms, etc. I'd definitely recommend the 8ANS switch. Also realize that there is a separate remote switch (RD-RS) and remote dimmer (RD-RD) as I initially missed that distinction.

Also, the Pico controls are nice and I have a couple of those on the wall at the head of the bed to control the bathroom lights. They only work with one load so you can't do as I was hoping, which was to use the middle button on another load. Actually, I did set my Pico controls that way but I'm using them through CQC. It imparts a couple second latency but now I have one Pico remote controlling two loads AND it isn't setup in the Lutron software so they don't count towards the 100 device limitation.

 

[rsw686]

The Pico controls are a great deal for the price. I'll have to put a few of those on the list to purchase. For the wall plates did you purchase the Lutron ones? The dimmers look to be compatible with any plate, but the keypad manual states only the Lutron plate will fit.

 

[rsw686]

I just found out there is a new RRD-6CL CFL/LED dimmer with pricing the same as the RRD-6D dimmer. I haven't found any specifications sheets, just the following product reference.
 
http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/3671673c%20RadioRA%202%20PRG.pdf

 

[guy999]

i was interested in radiora 2 but i heard from a installer friend that they can mess up wifi in the house, because they are very diligent about getting a good connection and they broadcast on the same frequency as wifi.
 
any truth to that?
 
I'm also getting rid of upb, but I was thinking radiora 2 or zwave lighting.

 

[dgage]

Do a search for Lutron Clear Connect White Paper.  RadioRa2 is 418MHz and wifi is around 2,400 or 5,000 MHz.  And the original RadioRa was also on the 418MHz frequency so I'm not sure where your friend is getting his information.
 
Also, I have not had any issues with wifi in my house.

 

[az1324]

The RA2 frequencies are very far from WiFi.  Zigbee frequencies are the closest to 2.4GHz WiFi.  But now there's 5.8GHz WiFi.

 

[wkearney99]

i was interested in radiora 2 but i heard from a installer friend that they can mess up wifi in the house, because they are very diligent about getting a good connection and they broadcast on the same frequency as wifi.
 
any truth to that?

 
No truth whatsoever.  It's either incompetence on that installer's part, or deliberate lies.  The RA stuff, all of it, has never operated on any frequencies even close to WiFi.  
 
To take it one step further, in the old house we had a LOT of trouble getting wifi to permeate effectively (old plaster and lead paint makes for a very challenging RF environment) but RA1 worked absolutely rock-solid reliably.  In the new house RA2 is likewise working great, even with the repeater being all the way down in the basement (until I set up a connection for it in an upstairs closet to get better reach for a Pico remote in the car).

 

[rosenqui]

That is probably the way I am going to go. When I look at Lutron's website the Cree and Philips LED bulbs I have are stated to be compatible with the 10ND. This means they will defiantly work with the hybrid keypad as long as the neutral wire is connected.
 
Looking through the software I don't see a way to disable dimming for a switch like you can on UPB. It looks like I'll need to replace these bulbs unless setting the default value to 100 and the fade rate to 0 makes it somewhat work.

 
I don't have an RA2 system (yet), but in manually programmed mode you can enter Advanced Programming Mode and set dimmers into "switch" mode. See page 5 of app note #247 ("Advanced Programming Mode for manually programmed systems") here: http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Service-Support/Pages/Technical/ApplicationNotes.aspx
 
Hopefully the same thing can be done from central programming.

 

[rsw686]

I don't have an RA2 system (yet), but in manually programmed mode you can enter Advanced Programming Mode and set dimmers into "switch" mode. See page 5 of app note #247 ("Advanced Programming Mode for manually programmed systems") here: http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Service-Support/Pages/Technical/ApplicationNotes.aspx
 
Hopefully the same thing can be done from central programming.

 
Thanks for finding that! The RadioRA 2 Essentials Designer software that you download after completing the BLAST training does not have that option. I haven't ordered the starter kit yet so maybe the RadioRA 2 Essentials full software does have it. When I look in the software under advanced settings I only have options for trim, on level, fade rate, long date to off, and phase control.
 
Edit: This might not work as the PDF states "If the dimmer has already been PC programmed, the LEDs will normal flash for 10 seconds and return to normal operation instead of entering APM."

 

[wkearney99]

I looked in the 'Inclusive' level of the program and there doesn't appear to be a specific way to set that 'switch mode'.  I checked the 'advanced settings' for the devices (in the Program tab) and there's not a choice for it.  
 
There's settings for hi/low for trim levels, on level, fade on/off rates, delayed off rate and phase control.  Where devices support these settings, of course.  Hybrids don't set on and fade levels per the device's dimmer (just per whatever you've set for a given button, where the top one defaults to the in-built dimmer load) and only the 6NA supports the phase control.
 
Nor is there any place in the program to en/disable the keypad IR settings also mentioned in that technical note. 
 
Curious...
 
I'd wonder, if you programmed a dimmer as a switch would that entirely eliminate any manual dimming control on it?  I'd likewise wonder if that would also get picked up by the programing when it detects user changes.
 
And in what situations would you install a dimmer and not want to use it as such?  If you're thinking that might be a way to avoid issues with LEDs don't be to quick to jump to that conclusion.  I've run into a few LEDs that just did not want to work properly AT ALL off of a 6D, no matter what dim levels or defaults I used.  I didn't try the switch mode, but I wouldn't expect that to be any different than the way the default off/full settings are handled in a dimmer anyway.

 

[wkearney99]

Edit: This might not work as the PDF states "If the dimmer has already been PC programmed, the LEDs will normal flash for 10 seconds and return to normal operation instead of entering APM."

 
Yes, I just caught that also. 
 
I could imagine some real troubleshooting woes if someone accidentally programmed one of these features and forgot about it.  It'd make someone think the dimmer was broken.  
 
I just checked, the highest it'll let you set the low trim is 45%.  And on a 6NA it won't let you set it lower than 30%.  The 6D and 10ND will allow setting the low trim between 1 and 45%.  I don't know if 45% qualify as 'high enough' or not, but I suspect not.
 
Might be a reasonable question for the Lutron forums...  so I asked:
https://forums.lutron.com/showthread.php/340-Manual-programming-has-switch-mode-and-IR-en-disable-but-not-in-software?p=1178#post1178