Repeated ZWave commands damaging to outlets?

[polldav]

I'm 99% sure this is a stupid question, but is it possible to damage a Zwave switch or outlet by sending repeated signals to it to stay in the same state that it's in?
 
For example, if an outlet is already on, does it hurt to keep sending it a signal to turn on every minute? 
 
I have an Elk M1 with the ZWave controller module, and just added some new things to it. Some of the programming I'm doing is much easier if I can safely send signals repeatedly, regardless of the state the switch is currently in. 

 

[drvnbysound]

Can you explain the reasoning for doing this more? I have 25 devices on my Zwave network and have a fair amount of rules setup to control my lighting, but I have not found a case where I'd need to do the above. Basically, what's your use case for doing this?

 

[polldav]

Can you explain the reasoning for doing this more? I have 25 devices on my Zwave network and have a fair amount of rules setup to control my lighting, but I have not found a case where I'd need to do the above. Basically, what's your use case for doing this?

 
I have a hot water circulator pump on a zwave outlet that i want to make sure doesn't stay on, so I periodically send it an off signal if it should be off. I also have an outlet hooked up that I control based on temperature, so I just send it an on/off signal based on that every 15 minutes. 

 

[drvnbysound]

Why would an outlet that's turned off, suddenly turn on? Nothing other than a poorly written rule is going to change the state of your outlets. Whether or not it receives the command to turn on/off is another story.
 
Regarding the temperature based outlet, assuming you are not using a Leviton receptacle that supports Instant Status and reports its status back... why not poll the system a minute after the signal was sent to ensure that it's on? And a minute or so after it's turned off to ensure that it's off. You could use a phantom output to keep track of the status of the outlet, and/or use that phantom output to control the outlet.
 
I guess there is probably nothing wrong with what you are doing, but honestly if I was that concerned about a possible issue I think I would find a better way to automate it. The issue with sending the ON command every minute is that it will congest the network traffic when you start to get more rules and additional traffic being sent. This could negatively impact the response time and reliability of your network.
 
I just re-read your original post and I guess I have to ask...  why are you sending the ON command again, if you already know the outlet is on?

 

[polldav]

I don't actually know the outlet is on, all I know is that the elk system told the outlet to turn on. My understanding is that the Elk zwave controller is a controller only, and doesn't really "know" the status of the individual zwave devices like a real zwave controller would. I have had some issues with my zwave thermostats missing signals, and I had to work around it by creating timer retry loops instead of just setting a value one time. 
 
I don't actually know for a fact that the outlets have the same issue with missing commands, but I don't see why they would function perfectly 100% of the time if the thermostats don't. 
 
Do you actually know the answer to my original question? 

 

[drvnbysound]

Ultimately, I don't think it's going to matter, but as I mentioned it can certainly impact the network if you have more traffic.
 
Using Leviton devices, as mentioned above, I am able to track the status of each device - even if the device (e.g. switch) was manually turned on.

 

[ChrisCicc]

CastleOS has a dedicated feature for just this purpose, called PermaLight™. While ostensibly designed for lighting, it works with any on/off device. The feature works simply to ensure the device stays on or off, as per your settings. 

 

[tmbrown97]

You won't hurt the device - you'll only flood the communications network with unnecessary commands and potentially cause missed commands as you expand the network.  

 

[Dogman]

I use my ELK for exactly the same purpose with my ZWAVE outlet for my hot water recirc pump.  I don't really care if it is off but I do care when it is on so I just have the Elk announce Hot water pump on when it detects that the ZWAVE outlet field has reported back it is on.   You should be able to do the same thing but with the OFF command.  Or just use a rule to monitor the state and if it detects it is on  in a condition you don't want then have it turn it off but Work 2 Play is 100 percent correct.  ZWAVE is easily over whelmed on the network if you send too many commands too fast.  I have about 30 devices and the network will get bogged down if I send too many commands so I always space them out.   What brand of ZWAVE equipment do you have?   Leviton reports status to the VRCOP without polling most other brands do not and have to be polled.

 

[polldav]

What brand of ZWAVE equipment do you have?   Leviton reports status to the VRCOP without polling most other brands do not and have to be polled.

 
Yeah, it seems like I wouldn't have these issues if I had a Leviton outlet. When I ordered I assumed that GE stuff would be fine (and GE was the only "outdoor module" I could really find for my Christmas lights), so I think that part of my problem is that the GE outlets don't associate/provide feedback to the VRC0P. 
 
With that said, I think my network is much better than it was when I first posted this. Per this thread http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/27670-elk-m1-with-zwave-thermostats-polling-suddenly-not-working/ I learned that the professional installer I paid to do the z-wave side of my Elk network must not have set up the VRC0P correctly at all. It basically wasn't listed as a controller. I have no idea how stuff sorta worked that way, but now I rebuilt it correctly and everything seems much happier in general, so I'm not as worried about commands getting lost. 

 

[Dogman]

Ok well another thing is I have one intermatic old Zwave non reporting outlet for my christmas lights and along with my multitude of Leviton equipment it has been 99.9 % reliable in fact may 100% I really don't remember any missed commands from the ELK.   It may not really be an issue.