Replacing pre-existing smoke detectors with something better

[mopfoot]

Hello,
 
I just installed an M1 Gold.  I have a pre-existing AC powered Smoke/CO system but several of the units need to be replaced so I'm thinking of replacing them all with something compatible with the M1.  What would work in my situation?
 

• I can disconnect the AC in the mechanical room if it should be converted to DC
• All detectors have 14/3 with ground to each location (4 wires)
• I believe they're wired in parallel but I may be able to change that to series if needed
• Current detectors are FireX Model FADCQ

 
Thanks!
 

 

[RAL]

What you are hoping to do may not be as simple as you imagine.  The units you have in place now are smoke alarms, which operate independently of an alarm panel.  These are required by most building codes.  Smoke detectors are devices that get connected to an alarm panel.
 
Even if you have an alarm panel like the M1, your local building code may not permit you to replace the smoke alarms with smoke detectors that are connected to the M1.   In that case, you can still install separate smoke detectors that connect to the M1 and gain the benefit of having a monitoring service dispatch the fire department. But you will still have to keep the smoke alarms to satisfy the building code.
 
It sounds silly, but the reason for this is that an alarm panel can be easily disabled by a homeowner, removing the safety protection that the detectors provide.

 

[mopfoot]

I was afraid that would be the answer.  I don't really want to buy double equipment.  
 
I've heard some newer smoke alarms can report status to a panel.  True?  Can anyone recommend any models?

 

[mopfoot]

Is a relay like the kidde sm120x the best option?  I assume I'd hook that to one of the Elk's inputs.  I could also buy co120x and wire it into another input, right?
 
Are these relays brand agnostic?  Since I'm basically starting over on the alarms, what is recommended?

 

[RAL]

Your question about using a relay with the smoke alarms to trigger the alarm panel has come up before, and although there are relays that claim that they can be used for this purpose, doing so may or may not be allowed in your jurisdiction.
 
With at least some of the smoke alarms and relays, it's possible for an AC power failure to cause the relay to trigger the panel, resulting in the fire department showing up because the power went out, not because there is a fire.  That really pisses them off.
 
My personal opinion is that it doesn't seem to be a good idea, although some folks on Cocoontech say they have done it.
 
Here are a couple of threads where it has been discussed previously.
 
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/21106-interconnect-120vac-smokes-with-alarm-panel/
 
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/18975-your-2-cents-on-my-smoke-alarm-setup-with-elk-m1/
 
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/22226-ge-350-smoke-detector/

 

[elvisimprsntr]

Don't spend anymore than $15 per smoke. NFPA/NEC requires all smokes to be replaced every 10 years. I just replaced all 9 smokes in my home with Kidde smokes and a couple of dual smoke/co alarms. I think I spent $115. I then added the Kidde RemoteLync remote alarm monitoring device. Works great.

 

[Del91574]

What you are hoping to do may not be as simple as you imagine.  The units you have in place now are smoke alarms, which operate independently of an alarm panel.  These are required by most building codes.  Smoke detectors are devices that get connected to an alarm panel.
 
Even if you have an alarm panel like the M1, your local building code may not permit you to replace the smoke alarms with smoke detectors that are connected to the M1.   In that case, you can still install separate smoke detectors that connect to the M1 and gain the benefit of having a monitoring service dispatch the fire department. But you will still have to keep the smoke alarms to satisfy the building code.
 
It sounds silly, but the reason for this is that an alarm panel can be easily disabled by a homeowner, removing the safety protection that the detectors provide.

Without getting into the lively debate,

There is nothing within building code that requires smoke alarms vs. smoke detectors.  The only time that they are required or mandated is if the local code supercedes typical building code (IRC or whatever is typically enforced). That said, in actuality, the smoke detectors make for an inherently better system when installed in the same code mandated method as the line voltage smoke alarms. I have yet run across a building official or fire marshal that did not allow the units to be used/replaced interchangeably when the documentation was placed in front of them documenting the install and compliance. The key is a compliant install using all UL listed components and installed as dictated by UL and NFPA.
 
What I have run across, is the use of improperly listed relays and interconnect to HV detectors which is inherently flawed. There's many items that can be pointed out, but the largest item is the component itself is not listed, nor is the interconnect to a FACP.
 
The larger item is whether or not the installation would be subject to a permitting process and subsequent testing by the AHJ to be added to the property's CofO. Insurers really only care if the system is code compliant, and anything that is done to mitigate any losses, they'll go for.
 
@ Elvis: Your statement isn't entirely correct. Units that can't have sensitivity values pulled and measured are required to be replaced at the 10 year mark. Otherwise, you can keep them in service longer than that anniversary.

 

[elvisimprsntr]

@ Elvis: Your statement isn't entirely correct. Units that can't have sensitivity values pulled and measured are required to be replaced at the 10 year mark. Otherwise, you can keep them in service longer than that anniversary.

I should have prefaced my post with " typical residential smokes". If one has deep pockets, can afford commercial smokes, calibration, etc. more power to ya.

 

[rsw686]

I just saw in the Worthington catalog a new UL listed device EC-FF319 that listens for the smoke alarm sounder and sends a wireless signal to a GE/Interlogix receiver.
 
http://encorecontrols.com/perch/resources/firefighter-manual-319-r1.03.pdf

 

[Del91574]

I should have prefaced my post with " typical residential smokes". If one has deep pockets, can afford commercial smokes, calibration, etc. more power to ya.

Not true.
 
You're referring to smoke alarms. Smoke detectors, such as those by System Sensor (I3 and I4 series) have test ports right on them and only would require the appropriate device from SS to pull the readings out of the detector. Other manufacturers are similar.
 
http://systemsensor.com/en-us/Pages/SENS-RDR.aspx
 
Testing Unit is around $180. If you compare the cost of replacing/rebuilding, say, 4-5 smokes, it'll pay for itself. If you have a "typical" house, 2 story with basement, and 3-4 bedrooms, that's at least $300+ to replace compliant devices.
 
If you're talking conventional smoke alarms, at big box orange or blue store pricing of $10-15 each....devices that were never designed to be connected to a FACP, then you're talking a different install and criteria again. Those have always been disposable and consumer items.
 
In my area, there are plenty of system smoke detectors installed vs. 100% conventional smoke alarms. That's always going to be the case until the LV units that are easy enough for electricians to install at roughly the same cost, without requiring a system are listed and accepted in the US. There are some out there, but only distributed in CA. That said, there's always going to be houses that have 1980's code compliant or no detectors installed.