Ring Pro Doorbell and Elk 960/930

Steve

Senior Member
Has anyone setup a Ring doorbell with an Elk 930 or 960? I've had my regular lighted bell trigger a 960 then a 930 which triggered a song on my Nuvo and its worked great for years. I installed a Ring Pro doorbell and I can't get either to work. It doesn't seem like pressing the button on the Ring opens/closes the circuit or draws a bunch of current. I'm guessing the circuit stays closed all the time and the button press just initiates the WiFi stuff. Anyone play around with this? My other thought was to get a remote chime and maybe be able to tap into the speaker wires or something to indicate activation?
 
I have not set up a Ring doorbell with my currently configured door button Elk 930/960. 
 
Here went similar with the zoned audio chatty kathy announcement plus added CCTV front door triggers. 
 
It most likely not difficult to modify your Ring Doorbell to work with your current stuff such that you can continue to utilize your old stuff with your new stuff.
 
Would you mind sharing your setup where you got the Elk930 working with the Ring?  My specific questions:
 
1.  What doorbell are you using (original, pro, etc)
2.  Did you include a Ring Pro power cable in the setup?
3.  can you share your exact wiring diagram?
4.  On the Elk side, I want to simulate closing a contact on a digital system.  i'm not familiar with "open collector" output.  How do I do this?
 
 
Many thanks!
 
Tucsonan said:
Would you mind sharing your setup where you got the Elk930 working with the Ring?  My specific questions:
 
1.  What doorbell are you using (original, pro, etc)
2.  Did you include a Ring Pro power cable in the setup?
3.  can you share your exact wiring diagram?
4.  On the Elk side, I want to simulate closing a contact on a digital system.  i'm not familiar with "open collector" output.  How do I do this?
 
 
Many thanks!
1.  What doorbell are you using (original, pro, etc)
Ring Pro
 
2.  Did you include a Ring Pro power cable in the setup?
Yes, you need to wire in the "power kit" at the doorbell.
 
3.  can you share your exact wiring diagram?
Nothing special. The ELK930 is just a current monitor you install in series with the doorbell coil. When the doorbell is rung (>900ma) it triggers my HAI OPII (or an ELK as a zone)
 
4.  On the Elk side, I want to simulate closing a contact on a digital system.  i'm not familiar with "open collector" output.  How do I do this?
The ELK930 gives instructions on how to hook it to a zone. If it doesn't work, just reverse the two terminals.
 
I should add, with the Ring Pro, you have a bit less flexibility where you install the ELK930.  It now HAS to be installed at the doorbell, NOT at the button.  It probably can be installed at the transformer also if that works.  Its only measuring current, and its unlikely the Ring uses 900ma of current, only the doorbell uses that much, so it should work.  As Pete says, the wiring with the Ring is not that much diffferent than a "plain" doorbell, as long as you have a doorbell with a solenoid bell, not an electronic bell.
 
Had a quickie look at the Ring Pro set up manual.
 
1 - Looks that the Ring Pro will utilize the two wires for your old doorbell for power.  This means that the two wires going from the front doorbell button going to the Elk 960/930 boards will need to be removed and connected to the Ring Pro power kit.   This is step #1.
 
ring1.jpg
 
2 - After you complete step #1 the transport for the doorbell ring actions are wireless and you can purchase one of these devices which is both a chimer and a wireless repeater.
 
ring2.jpg
 
This device will need to be configured for triggering the Elk 960/930 boards.  This will be a take apart of the device and directly connecting to the circuit board or maybe just the speaker  / chimer 2 wires.  Put the device next to your ELK 960/930 boards.  Here my combo 960/930 boards are next to the original door bell transformer in the basement rafters. I did put a duplex outlet right there before purchasing the 960/930 combo relating to using X10 many many years ago.   You can utilize a VOM for a virtual look.  BTW if you opto isolate this switch you would just need to use the Elk debounce board and not the doorbell board.
 
I am guessing that there are no NC/NO terminals on the repeater chimer.  You will void your warranty on the device if you modify it.
 
Just a guess here as I do not have a Ring Pro here.
 
The 960/930 boards are dual functions.  One function of one board is just a trigger switch that closes a zone on your panel based on normal doorbell AC voltages.  The other board is just a debounce board  / timer for heavy handed door bell ringers.  I have four wires going to these boards from the alarm panel (2 are the switch/zone and 2 are 12VDC from the alarm panel - guessing just like your setup right now).
 
You can make this maybe simpler by having four wires to your current doorbell button area.  Two wires would be utilized for powering the Ring Pro.  Two wires to your current ELK 960/930 tapping to the inside of your Ring Pro button modifying it a bit if it is a physical switch (versus a touch switch).  Again this will void the warranty on your Ring Pro device.
 
Here is a picture of the base plate for the doorbell outside.  The two terminals there are for power with what looks like 12 contacts to the front piece and doorbell button which I have no clue about.
 
ring3.jpg
 
pete_c said:
You can make this maybe simpler by having four wires to your current doorbell button area.  Two wires would be utilized for powering the Ring Pro.  Two wires to your current ELK 960/930 tapping to the inside of your Ring Pro button modifying it a bit if it is a physical switch (versus a touch switch).  Again this will void the warranty on your Ring Pro device.
It really won't be THAT much simpler because the Ring Pro only has TWO terminals. Like most other doorbell buttons it only uses TWO wires.
 
Its really not THAT complex.  The Ring doorbell button works like every other doorbell button.  The only slight difference is that it requires a "power booster" to be connected at the bell. You can ignore that part for the purposes of the ELK930.  You don't need another chime to make this work. The Ring Pro does use extra power, just like all lighted doorbells use extra power, and that extra power travels over the two doorbell wires. The back of it looks like this...
 
unspecified-1.jpg
 
Suggestion was to modify the Ring  ProDoorbell button (or replacing the button) with an double throw switch button and using the second set of wires.  This is not an easy modification and a hack.
 
You are right Ano.  I read and made it more complicated than it is.
 
The whole what time is it question and building a new clock answer thing.
 
The same two wires in place going to the Elk 960/930 combo should work as before and your old doorbell chime should work as before. 
 
You do not need to remove these wires and your Elk stuff should work same as before. 
 
Back to Steve's OP.
 
The new Ring Pro should work fine with current transformer and the existing two wires that are going to your front doorbell button.  No changes to any wiring with the Elk 960/930 modules.
 
Per the installation manual, if it doesn't work then the Ring Pro Module should be utilized again not changing any of the wiring for your Elk 960/930 stuff.
 
I installed the Ring Pro 2 weeks ago with power booster.  It still rings my standard electromechanical chime.  The problem is with the ELK-930.  It worked perfectly for 2 weeks.  Two nights ago for no reason, the ELK started to report the doorbell shorted (closed).  It stayed that way for about 14 hours.  The Ring Doorbell worked fine during that time and didn't think its button was pushed.  It then worked fine for a day, but now is shorted again at the ELK.
 
Any ideas?  Voltage at the Ring status page says very good.  Really messing up with a set of programs triggered by doorbell ring on my isy.
 
thanks
 
bob4321 said:
I installed the Ring Pro 2 weeks ago with power booster.  It still rings my standard electromechanical chime.  The problem is with the ELK-930.  It worked perfectly for 2 weeks.  Two nights ago for no reason, the ELK started to report the doorbell shorted (closed).  It stayed that way for about 14 hours.  The Ring Doorbell worked fine during that time and didn't think its button was pushed.  It then worked fine for a day, but now is shorted again at the ELK.
 
Any ideas?  Voltage at the Ring status page says very good.  Really messing up with a set of programs triggered by doorbell ring on my isy.
 
thanks
 
It's possible there is a short in the wiring between the 930 and the M1, or it could be that the 930's output is flaky.   A flaky output could be due to a defect, or because the current through the 930 from the ring pro is marginal.
 
To debug this, I would disconnect the wires from the OUT and NEG terminals of the 930, and use a ohm meter to check for shorts in the wiring.
 
If there is no short, then the question is why the M1 thinks the zone is violated.  Check what the M1 status shows as you open and short the bare wires together. If the M1 shows the proper status this way, then the problem would seem to be with the 930. 
 
In that case, I would put an ammeter in series with the wires to the 930 input terminals and see what the current is when the doorbell button is not pressed.  With a normal doorbell, it should be close to zero.  But if the Ring Pro is drawing significant current, that could cause a false trigger.
 
RAL - thanks for the suggestion.  As this is a random occurrence that seems to occur mainly at night (when the RING has the IR LEDs on for video), I will try the following - switch the Ring wiring onto the other doorbell inputs on the 930 to rule out issues with the 930 inputs (these are currently on a different doorbell).  Then, I'll hookup the ammeter to see what the at rest current draw is.  I saw somewhere that at rest it should be pretty low (< 200ma) so if I'm way above that it could pont to a Ring problem. 
I'll also change the transformer from a 16v to a 24v - this will reduce the current draw and the 930 is looking for a 900ma threshold and possible I can 'mask' the issue.
 
bob4321 said:
RAL - thanks for the suggestion.  As this is a random occurrence that seems to occur mainly at night (when the RING has the IR LEDs on for video), I will try the following - switch the Ring wiring onto the other doorbell inputs on the 930 to rule out issues with the 930 inputs (these are currently on a different doorbell).  Then, I'll hookup the ammeter to see what the at rest current draw is.  I saw somewhere that at rest it should be pretty low (< 200ma) so if I'm way above that it could pont to a Ring problem. 
I'll also change the transformer from a 16v to a 24v - this will reduce the current draw and the 930 is looking for a 900ma threshold and possible I can 'mask' the issue.
 
If it's happening mainly at night, that makes me suspicious that the current draw may be the problem.  When the IR LEDs come on, that's going to increase the current, perhaps significantly.  So make a measurement under both daylight and night time conditions.
 
The 930 specs say there should be a minimum of 900 mA current draw by the doorbell.  But that doesn't mean the 930 will trigger at exactly that level.  It probably triggers at some lower level so that the designers could be satisfied that if you had 900 mA, it would always work. 
 
I found an additional clue - the first time the ELK reported the inputs shorted was at 11PM a few nights ago.  I have a program that at 11PM turns off some lights on the front porch.  This could have increased the power draw of the Ring if it has some sort of variable IR output based on existing light level, or the processor could be working harder to differentiate motion given darker conditions.  Of course this could just be a coincidence.
I will try covering the doorbell to simulate dark night conditions.
 
Are you hooking the 930 up to the power transformer?  Are you trying to detect motion, or only when they press the doorbell?  If you connect it at the transformer, then YES the camera, IR lights and even charging the battery become part of that 900ma limit.  Instead you need to hook the 930 in series with the doorbell chime AFTER the Ring Pro power adapter.  Then the 930 will respond to the doorbell chime just like it was connected to a plain-old doorbell. So DON'T follow the ELK 930 directions. Instead, connect it in series with the chime.
 
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