running wires to the headend

[v1rtu0s1ty]

If you use 2 wire smokes they connect to Zone 16 of the M1. Power is derived from zone 16 (remember to set the jumper underneath zone 16 to 2 wire smoke). They include an 820 ohm resistor for use on this zone if you use 2 wire smokes.

The M1 was evaluated for use with up to 20 smoke detectors on zone 16 so you are all set there.

Rememeber to label all of your wiring clearly since you will be running a ton of wire doing home runs on everything.

So are you agreeing with my connections on my drawing? I mean, are they correct?

 

[Digger]

Your drawing shows a setup that will work from what I see. Again there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Lets say worst case scenerio 5 years from now you want to add a bunch of motions or something else and your 22/12 is all used up. What do you do? You free up 4 conductors from the 22/12 and add a zone exapnder in the splice box you put on that floor and have a remore expander. The 2 zones you disconnected from the 22/12 will go on the new expander along with the new zones you are adding.

There is usually a way to make something work.

Take the best ideas from everyone for you and go with what you feel is best for you.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Your drawing shows a setup that will work from what I see. Again there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Lets say worst case scenerio 5 years from now you want to add a bunch of motions or something else and your 22/12 is all used up. What do you do? You free up 4 conductors from the 22/12 and add a zone exapnder in the splice box you put on that floor and have a remore expander. The 2 zones you disconnected from the 22/12 will go on the new expander along with the new zones you are adding.

There is usually a way to make something work.

Take the best ideas from everyone for you and go with what you feel is best for you.

Ah, that's a cool idea.

Also, I printed the 2 diagrams and laid on the table. My kids had so many questions. Their questions were very funny. Anyways, I don't know if this is a problem. In our old house, we never enter the front door when we come back from shopping. We always use the garage door. If you notice in my drawing, I have a 2 overhead contact sensors. Once I open the garage, will I still have time to disarm to reach the keypad in laundry?

Am I correct that overhead contact senson only use 2 conductors?

Thanks!

 

[Digger]

Set the garage contacts as Entry/Exit delay and set the time accordingly. That or get a keyfob and wireless receiver but thats a lot of money.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Set the garage contacts as Entry/Exit delay and set the time accordingly. That or get a keyfob and wireless receiver but thats a lot of money.

Yes, again good advice from Digger. In my friend's house I plan on having the garage door's on Entry/Exit2 which I will have as a longer time than the other stations (on Entry/Exit1).

I "beleive" that you can have a maximum of 255 seconds (over four minutes) of entry/exit delay time but check the manual to make sure.

 

[Digger]

Since the M1 was designed to comply with ANSI/SIA CP-01 False Alarm Reduction requirements you are correct on the 255 seconds.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

We always use the garage door. If you notice in my drawing, I have a 2 overhead contact sensors. Once I open the garage, will I still have time to disarm to reach the keypad in laundry?

Am I correct that overhead contact senson only use 2 conductors?

Missed this one! Yes, only two wires as it is just a contact closure like all your window and door zones. Use the Wide Gap units though. I mounted them on the top header (look at my Security System How-To).

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

We always use the garage door. If you notice in my drawing, I have a 2 overhead contact sensors. Once I open the garage, will I still have time to disarm to reach the keypad in laundry?

Am I correct that overhead contact senson only use 2 conductors?

Missed this one! Yes, only two wires as it is just a contact closure like all your window and door zones. Use the Wide Gap units though. I mounted them on the top header (look at my Security System How-To).

Thanks BraveSirRobin

Where can I find your security howto link?

 

[Steve]

Are my new diagrams a not good idea? Is my earlier route(having expander in each floor) a better approach than this new one? This was an easier route as explained to me by rfdesq. I really got confused on smoke sensors on 2nd floor that have another separate 18/4. I didn't have an answer as to how many 18/4 wires runs I needed. If I saw a diagram of how smoke detectors is connected to M1XIN plus the separate 18/4 for SAUX, it would have been easier for me to grasp.

My humble opinion is to set it up the first way, distributed, with expanders on each level. First of all, it will be very rare to have to troubleshoot an issue once everything is working and again IMHO I think it it easier to trace wires on one level rather than multilevel. What I mean is if all your wiring is on the same level it is alot easier to troubleshoot. Take for example a simple toner. You would not have to run to the basement eash time you want to tone/trace a wire - it will all be on the same floor. There would only be 1 wire (the bus) intrafloor to worry about. And you update firmware, etc from a acentral location so there really isn't much of a need to really see all the expanders, etc next to each other normally. I also agree with digger about future expansion. Having the RS485 available on each floor allowing you to add additional devices is much more future proof than worring about running new cables to the basement.

Edit: Also, not too familiar with 22/12 but I imagine it is 12 individual wires in a single outer sheath. It sounds like it would be a real pain to distribute that on each floor unless you strip the outer jacket in which case you are running unjacketed cable all over the floor. I may be wrong about that since I've never used or seen 22/12, but it seems easier to me to pull an individual 22/2 from each contact to the XIN.

Of course if you have conduit run between floors it may not be too difficult in the future but still harder than keeping it all on 1 floor. Just my opinion...

 

[toymaster458]

I was thinking the same thing about the 22/12. Even if he ran a 22/12 upstairs the split it off into seperate 22/2, where he joind the 22/2 to the 22/12 would just be another point of possible failure.

 

[rfdesq]

Edit: Also, not too familiar with 22/12 but I imagine it is 12 individual wires in a single outer sheath. It sounds like it would be a real pain to distribute that on each floor unless you strip the outer jacket in which case you are running unjacketed cable all over the floor. I may be wrong about that since I've never used or seen 22/12, but it seems easier to me to pull an individual 22/2 from each contact to the XIN.

You are correct. 22/12 is 12 individual color coded 22 gauge stranded wires in a single sheath. Not much bigger in diameter than 22/4. I spoke with Neil at length on the telephone last night. He has two days max to prewire everything before the drywallers start. He is planning on running three 22/12 wires from the second floor attic to the basement. That is 36 wires from the attic in three small cables. If you use one ground and one +12 volt wire that gives you 34 switch wires. This does not preclude Neil from putting the XIN in the attic if he chooses. He is going to run 22/4 from each switch and motion location to a central attic location. He then has the flexibility to attach the 22/4 to the 22/12's or to an XIN in the attic. I knew his time in the prewire was limited so I suggested that he get those 22/12's in place from the attic to the basement. With that much wire from top to bottom he can do most anything especially if he frees up 16 zones with an XIN in the attic. I've used thousands of ELK "B" connectors with the gel and never had a failure. I look at it more as a test point rather than a point of failure. Just two ways of looking at things.

 

[toymaster458]

What about the 18/4 that is needed for smoke? Those can not go over the 22/16.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

What about the 18/4 that is needed for smoke? Those can not go over the 22/16.

Hey guys, just came back from mowing. I will be using a 2 conductor smoke detector instead. The closest smoke detector is connected to zone 16 on M1. Then all the smoke detectors in second floor is connected in series with the smoke detector in first floor. You can see my setup on the second floor diagram. No smoke is going to be terminated to the 22/12. It is a single piece of long run from second floor to the M1.

 

[Digger]

Dont forget to have some CAT 5 etc pulled up to the attic as well. You never know when you might want that. Also if you have time some coax. Pull everything you need and then some as long as time and money permit.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Dont forget to have some CAT 5 etc pulled up to the attic as well. You never know when you might want that. Also if you have time some coax. Pull everything you need and then some as long as time and money permit.

Yep, I will do so. I also don't have worry since I have 2 pvc pipes from attic to basement. I just don't want to use it now because I know in the future, I will need it.

About the connections from an earlier question, I think from toymaster, here is how I understood rfdesq. All the negative from sensors are terminated to single wire in the 22/12. He mentioned to me a cheap board that I can buy from Home Depot which can be use like a bread board. So this board will connect any sensor's negative to that single conductor you assigned to the 22/12.

rfdesq, can you please let us know if I really understand your suggestion about terminating different types of runs to the 22/12 wire. Please see image below.