Should I jump ship on UPB?

kiddude

New Member
Hi,

I wanted to get some feedback on repair/future planning. Like many I have an Leviton/HAI Omni IIe alarm panel with a few UPB switches. I installed this with great success integrating most of the house about 13-15 years ago but now things have changed so the usefulness is not what it was. We had to change our furnace which is now Bryant Evolution Connex Control thermostat (to get the high efficiency) so that functionality is gone. Garage door is now myQ so I removed the relay and controls.
The Omni panel generally works but one zone is flaky but that is another issue. Finally, I had a pair of the switches (Simply Automated) die as they just will not work under any circumstance.

The question is do I really want to replace the UPB switches (they seem costly) or should I jump ship and move to something like Lutron Caseta (which seems like a decent solution). I have been working on integrating all my stuff into Home Assistant so I can replicate the scenes. Like people in another post I am not sold on the future of UPB and the cost of replacement switches is crazy relative to the market.

Thoughts?
 
Welcome to Cocoontech @kiddude.

Here have no issues with my OmniPro 2 panel connecting to my UPB switches, Zigbee, Z-Wave and X10 devices. Only failures of switches have been first generation Insteon that worked with the OmniPro 2 panel in X10 mode. Security wise it functions as it always has. X10 is used for my Christmas lighting. I like that it is one button that turns on all exterior and interior lighting at one time.

You can replace the SA switches which are not working. Purchase PCS UPB switches to replace the SA switches. A zone issue is most likely relating to the wiring of the zone. I continue to use an OmniStat. That said I really never touch the thermostat and only look at the Furnace / AC functions and temperatures.

Currently doing a different approach to house number 2.

1 - Ring alarm / doorbell et al security system and that is managed by Home Assistant or Homeseer and not my cell phone. It has a backup cellular connection built in. It's all wireless and using proprietary Z-Wave. Integrated myQ and Honeywell thermostat to Ring. I use the Ring sensors today for Amazon / HA triggers and events.

2 - Tasmota firmware WiFi switches (not internet dependant), Tasmota temperature sensors and other Tasmota based devices (ESPXXX).

3 - Gb wired with Cat6 everywhere.

4 - a la carte network infrastructure -
- Arris Modem
- PFSense firewall (4 Gb interfaces)
- Ruckus POE WAP(s)
- managed L2 POE switch

Remote access is only via OpenVPN (cell phones, tablets and computers)

5 - Automation software is: Home Assistant and Homeseer - I have used Homeseer since the late 1990's. Runs fine on Ubuntu Linux.
New automation server is running HA in a VM and Homeseer on Ubuntu Mono (and CumulusMx for weather station).

6 - CCTV is all Amcrest (inside and out)

6 - Using myQ GDO (a piece of crap with poor support) and a DIY'd Tasmota combo button, sensors and temperature GDO control device.
MyQ and Tasmota integration to HA these days.
 
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Thanks @pete_c.

Right now my Omni 2e works fine with the switches I have minus one set that just won't work anymore, I think it is the switch more than anything. I am in the house I am in for a while so it is more to clean up what was working and get it back to a useful state. I have seen the PCS UPB switches (WS1C) and they seem to run $110/ea although I guess I could get away with the WS1R which is about $90. I just means if I want to add any more using HA integration it could get costly. I had not looked into Tasmota and I saw Matter devices are starting to roll out. I have a Ubiquiti infrastructure behind a oauth reverse proxy which is why the alarm/house stuff got ignored for a while.

The bad zone issue is something more than wiring. Putting a 1K with nothing else attached across that zone (#7 specifically) sends it into the weeds and one of the other zones (#3) will actually say it "Has Trouble" when I do this. I suspect it is a board issue and when they replaced the furance it got shorted or something got screwed up.
 
There is (was) a bunch of SA switches on Ebay. Here use mostly SA switches. Single toggle and multiple toggle and dual load SA switches.

I used to use Ubiquiti APs and was a beta tester for their CCTV stuff and new AP many many years ago. Ruckus was recommended from the PFSense forum many years ago so switched.

The bad zone issue is something more than wiring. Putting a 1K with nothing else attached across that zone (#7 specifically) sends it into the weeds and one of the other zones (#3) will actually say it "Has Trouble" when I do this.

Yes then you probably have a board issue. (guesstimate). I would personally test each zone one at a time disconnecting contact sensor or PIR per zone. What value do you see on the zones in question.

Have a look at this discussion.


I suspect it is a board issue and when they replaced the furnace it got shorted or something got screwed up.

Not sure what the installation of the furnace would have done to your Omni panel. Did you have an Omnistat connected to your old furnace?
 
I was not clear. The zone was/is connected to a condensation pump for the furnace which is just a normally closed switch. During the install they installed a new pump but left the zone disconnect. The new pump is also a also normally closed switch. It worked perfectly for 10 years and then furnace got changed and the people doing the install did the disconnect. It won't work anymore even with the correct EOL resistor.

The only thing I have not tried (I just realized) is hooking it to another zone but it ohms out perfectly. They new pump is a MARS 27186 which has two blue wires to say when the float is stuck. Unless I am missing something it is just a switch. My old Omnistat was connected to the old furnace but I think that is irrelevant.

 
Hi,

I wanted to get some feedback on repair/future planning. Like many I have an Leviton/HAI Omni IIe alarm panel with a few UPB switches. I installed this with great success integrating most of the house about 13-15 years ago but now things have changed so the usefulness is not what it was. We had to change our furnace which is now Bryant Evolution Connex Control thermostat (to get the high efficiency) so that functionality is gone. Garage door is now myQ so I removed the relay and controls.
The Omni panel generally works but one zone is flaky but that is another issue. Finally, I had a pair of the switches (Simply Automated) die as they just will not work under any circumstance.

The question is do I really want to replace the UPB switches (they seem costly) or should I jump ship and move to something like Lutron Caseta (which seems like a decent solution). I have been working on integrating all my stuff into Home Assistant so I can replicate the scenes. Like people in another post I am not sold on the future of UPB and the cost of replacement switches is crazy relative to the market.

Thoughts?
MyQ? Chamberlain GDO? I had two of them completely destroy all signal capabilities on mt Insteon system. After adding the latest one with battery backup I discovered the original AC motor unit was also creating a lot of grid signal noise. A few Insteon FilterLincs resolved that problem.

Insteon and X10 wiring signals are just about the same frequency band. You may want to try disconnecting that GDO and see if things return to functioning.
 
Welcome to Cocoontech @kiddude.

Here have no issues with my OmniPro 2 panel connecting to my UPB switches, Zigbee, Z-Wave and X10 devices. Only failures of switches have been first generation Insteon that worked with the OmniPro 2 panel in X10 mode. Security wise it functions as it always has. X10 is used for my Christmas lighting. I like that it is one button that turns on all exterior and interior lighting at one time.

You can replace the SA switches which are not working. Purchase PCS UPB switches to replace the SA switches. A zone issue is most likely relating to the wiring of the zone. I continue to use an OmniStat. That said I really never touch the thermostat and only look at the Furnace / AC functions and temperatures.

Currently doing a different approach to house number 2.

1 - Ring alarm / doorbell et al security system and that is managed by Home Assistant or Homeseer and not my cell phone. It has a backup cellular connection built in. It's all wireless and using proprietary Z-Wave. Integrated myQ and Honeywell thermostat to Ring. I use the Ring sensors today for Amazon / HA triggers and events.

2 - Tasmota firmware WiFi switches (not internet dependant), Tasmota temperature sensors and other Tasmota based devices (ESPXXX).

3 - Gb wired with Cat6 everywhere.

4 - a la carte network infrastructure -
- Arris Modem
- PFSense firewall (4 Gb interfaces)
- Ruckus POE WAP(s)
- managed L2 POE switch

Remote access is only via OpenVPN (cell phones, tablets and computers)

5 - Automation software is: Home Assistant and Homeseer - I have used Homeseer since the late 1990's. Runs fine on Ubuntu Linux.
New automation server is running HA in a VM and Homeseer on Ubuntu Mono (and CumulusMx for weather station).

6 - CCTV is all Amcrest (inside and out)

6 - Using myQ GDO (a piece of crap with poor support) and a DIY'd Tasmota combo button, sensors and temperature GDO control device.
MyQ and Tasmota integration to HA these days.
Out of curiosity what Tasmota switches are you using?
 
Been testing / tinkering now for a couple of years initially starting with Sonoff and lately whatever looks nice that I can update with Tasmota firmware.

I've been happy with these combo FAN / Light switches and installed 4 of these next to UPB switches last year (?)

They are a PITA to take apart but once you have uploaded Tasmota firmware to them you never have to touch them again.

treatlife.jpg

Same for these "Virage" dimmer / relay switches. Found these generic same switches on Ebay for as low as $13 each.

Recently swapped out a few Martin Jerry dimmers for these switches. (~ 6 of them). These are a PITA to take apart and easy to upgrade firmware.

virage.jpg
 
Thanks for the reply Pete. Based on your reply I see you are flashing them. I read that Treatlife updated the chips in some models and not all can be flashed but they do work in HA via the Tuya plugin. I can always put them on a VLAN without external network access so they are only controllable through HA. That would be a much cheaper solution than adding additional UPB switches or moving to Lutron.

Again appreciate all the insight.
 
Look here for Tasmota updatable devices.

Tasmota Supported Devices Repository

The whole purpose of using Tasmota firmware is to replace the cloud pieces of the built in WiFi firmware. The push therefore is to use Tasmota firmware WiFi switches and not the vendors firmware or cloud.

All of the WiFi devices firmware is a bit different and only connects to the vendors cloud such that you need Internet access to these devices that you typically configure with your smart phone (Android or iOS).

That said it is a PITA to take apart a device to JTAG it. Here is a picture of my mods to Magic Home devices (2018) which I used for Kitchen counter LED lighting. The control (including dimming) is in a 12VDC firmware upgraded device. The lights work fine with the 120VAC switch connected to them.

Beginning of forum thread is here ==>

Under kitchen cabinet LED lamps with mcsMQTT control

It was not easy to do the update. That said I did all of the kitchen counters and over the kitchen cabinet lighting with these controllers and they are doing fine 4 years later. If I removed the WiFi (modded with firmware) controller I can control these LED lamps with UPB dimmer switches. I have a similar configuration in my home office except controlled by UPB for the three almost floor to ceiling shelves there.

magichome1.jpg

Many folks do leave the stock firmware on these devices and put them in a VLAN for external Internet access. Same with Alexa and Google devices.

There are a few vendors selling their WiFi devices with Tasmota or similar off the cloud firmware these days. IE: Shelly, Virage, et al.

This is a tad more work than connecting an X10, UPB, Insteon, ZWave or Zigbee controller to devices and managing the controller with whatever. WiFi (with vendors firmware) is being sold as Easy button automation that you can configure with your smart phone and everybody has a smart phone these days which is on 24/7 (connected to the internet).
 
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I am using Magic Home controller for mine with no mods and none are connected to their cloud. When you set them up you need to look for the bypass of the cloud connection.

IIRC the older apps did not allow this but I found a FluxNet app that would allow it and used that for the initial setup with my WiFi. I have about 8 strips, 15 RGBCW/WW bulbs, and 2 CW/WW lamps that all talk LEDenet/MagicHome protocol.
 
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