Something is not right with my ELK M1

[v1rtu0s1ty]

I didn't access my M1 via RP for more than 1.5 years and there was no weirdness. Few days ago, I downloaded the latest RP so I can create rules for my sprinklers. I didn't upgrade the firmware. I noticed though that I can't arm it. I tried using code, it didn't work. I tried the arm stay, it didn't. This was from 2 days ago.
 
This morning when I looked outside my backyard, one of the sprinkler was watering the lawn. I went down to look at output 10 which is the one were the running sprinkler was connected. However, keypad shows OUTPUT 10 was OFF. All 5 sprinkler valve's OUTPUT was OFF. I pressed # on OUTPUT 9 to turn it ON. Please see attached pictures so you'll see how my sprinkler rule works. At this time, 2 sprinklers were running which is fine. OUTPUT 9 is also showing ON in keypad which is fine. OUTPUT 10 though was still set to OFF which is ok because we already know there is something going on. I went back to OUTPUT 9 and pressed # to turn it OFF. It stopped watering which is good. OUTPUT 10 is now ON and since it's already watering, it just continued watering. I pressed # on OUTPUT 10 to turn it OFF, it stopped watering. I did the same for OUTPUT 11,12 and 13 without any issues.
 
When I pressed ARM STAY, it would just beep and not arm the house. I tried my secret code but it didn't arm the house. Though I knew how it would arm, I still didn't do it so I can troubleshoot. I gave up clicking on the keypad because it wasn't arming. The workaround to make it work is to open any door/window with a magnet sensor. I did and I was able to arm the house. That's what I did too 2 days ago.
 
To put it in a nutshell, I have 2 issues.
1. Sprinkler on OUTPUT 10 is turning ON even if OUTPUT 10 on keypad is showing OFF
2. Unable to disarm the house
 
For issue 1, maybe it's a bad Orbit valve. I will buy a new Orbit valve later.
For issue 2, I have no idea what to do.
 
Please let me know what you need from me so you can help me troubleshoot.
 
Thanks!
 
 

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Just in case you want to see the beginning of my rules, please see attachment. If my memory is correct, someone helped me wrote it this way as a workaround when system is physically turned OFF and ON.
 
By the way, I haven't turned off my M1 for more than 1.5 years now, maybe even more. Not sure if that could be related to my issue #2.
 
I'm also attaching my M1 details specifically the versions.

 

[Del91574]

I've heard of similar odd issues, have you checked the battery on the panel?

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

What should I check on the battery?

 

[tmbrown97]

I'm not familiar enough with battery testing to know how to do it without a real battery tester, but you want to check actual voltage at least, then if that's good, check to see if it can handle any power draw and maintain voltage.  I guess start with actual voltage coming off it to make sure it's at least in range and not "absorbing" voltage.
 
Next time you see a sprinkler valve on when the keypad shows it off, can you check the relay board to see if the lights show it on there?  And can you use a voltmeter across the terminals to see if it's really on or not?  That'll tell you if it's lost in the M1 or if it's the valve somehow.
 
And side note - originally I did my sprinklers like you, but I found if I wanted to manually turn on say Zone 3, when it turned off it would still finish running all the zones - so I added one more output to the beginning so I'd know it was running on the program... basically when the task started, turn on this other zone for 20 minutes (or long enough to run through all zones) - and for each "when zone 1 turns off AND output xxx is on, turn on zone 2 for 5 minutes).  This definitely makes it easier when doing individual watering or when walking around maintaining the system turning each zone on/off as you go through it.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Did a quick read of your post. Awesome! I'll read it again onceI get back. Going to church very soon. Thanks!

 

[Del91574]

Not the panel battery, but the memory battery on the circuit board under the plastic shield.....Since it's a lithium, it may meter fine, but under a load or continous draw is usually the telltale for them. If you're not sure, it's a sub $10 part to try.
 
One site I have an M1 on had strange quirks start happening....removed, replaced memory battery and dumped the program back in and the problems solved themselves.
 
This is of course, going on the assumption that other checks were already performed (relays fire, code works, RP arms and disarms, dump the program back into the panel, etc.)
 
Curious, is there a reason why the FW is so far back there besides not needing to upgrade? Legacy RF?

 

[tmbrown97]

DEL - any idea at what age people should start looking at that coincell battery?  I'd be willing to bet most people never pop the plastic cover off their M1 to know that's in there.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Hi DelInstallation, to answer why the fw is so old is because it's been so stable for many many years. Zero issues.

Can you please paste a pic of the panel, I'm not sure where it is.

Thanks!

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Fyi, I access it via serial. I don't have an Ethernet module.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Work2play, yes, I've never opened it.

 

[Del91574]

Before considering anything with that battery....prudence first. Download and backup the panel....once you pull that battery it's all gone (from memory) but I may be thinking of some of the FACP's that I work with also.
 
I can't remember if pulling the battery dumps the FW resident on the board.....even so, it's easy enough to drop in and bring up to the latest/greatest if needed.
 
The account I can remember was about 5 years installed on their replacement board (first was a lightning hit) before there were funky issues that showed up. As a last resort, we finally chose to go through, pull the battery, bootstrap the panel, then dump the original program back in....that was at least 3-4 years ago. I wish I could remember when the M1 first came to market...maybe between '04-06?
 
If the OP's RP is correct, his is 7 years easily (assuming manufacturer and sitting in stock for a period of time). I'd say it's close to time to be considered, as I said, it's a sub $10 part and it's not going to hurt....we have to replace those same batteries with some frequency with one of our access control sites.....generator testing, UPS testing, the whole scenario, it's about a 3-4 year affair for those batteries before they're toast, so it depends on the OP's power loss history, how long the panel has sat with the slide switch off...what have you, but I'd limit the service life to 10 years.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Where can I buy the battery?
 
Yes, I installed it 2006. I only upgraded the fw once maybe 2009.
 
I read few fw upgrade threads and some people weren't successful. I didn't have any issues before. I'm still thinking if I really need to upgrade it. I have to read the logs. If firmware changes are for modules that I don't have, maybe I can hold off on it.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Another question, how are these rules read? Will all the output turn on at the same time?
If not, how do we write the code so that they'll all run at the same time?
 

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

I just created 5 new automation tasks for it. It worked great!