speaker wiring w/ CAV 6.6, what's needed?

[v1rtu0s1ty]

hey guys, I'm back with a new question

I've done installations of simple home theater like for a 5.1 or 7.1 but whole house speaker wiring is quite new to me. I'm almost 95% done with the plans for my security wiring and I think it's time for me to get started on speaker wiring.

I'm leaning towards purchasing Russound CAV 6.6 equipment. However, I don't know what other wiring are needed. All I know right now is that, I'm going to run many 14/2 or 16/2 wires wherever I want the speakers to be. The other end of the speaker wire will be terminated to the basement where all my home security wires are. I was watching the keypad demo on russound.com. I think a wire is needed for that. Am I correct? What type of wire is needed for the keypad?

Can someone please share whole house speaker wiring setup diagram? That will help me a lot too.

Oh, I forgot that I'm doing this since I don't have the drywalls yet. Perfect time

 

[IVB]

here's a thread with a wiring diagram that uses a CAV66 as a reference point. I'm pointing you to the thread rather than directly to the diagram as there was much chatter about after I wrote it up about all the stuff that I assumed/did wrong/etc

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

here's a thread with a wiring diagram that uses a CAV66 as a reference point. I'm pointing you to the thread rather than directly to the diagram as there was much chatter about after I wrote it up about all the stuff that I assumed/did wrong/etc

Nice to hear from you again! Thanks for the thread link.

EDIT: I will draw the wiring diagram for my a/v tonight. I will use the flickr site mentioned on your link as a reference.

So looking at your first diagram, your Denon receiver on the separate room is hooked to the CAV 6.6. You mentioned there, it is connected via an RG6 line level audio(color orange). What is that really? What is it purpose?

 

[pkoslow]

v1rtu0s1ty,

I'm attaching a drawing converted to PDF that show keypad & speaker wiring for the CAV6.6. This drawing is a little unique because the speaker wires go from CAV6.6 to wall jacks located in each room where freestanding or bookshelf speakers could be attached. This was done for a customer with a log cabin so in-ceiling and in-wall speakers weren't an option.

Basically you'll need to run a single CAT5 from the CAV6.6 location to each keypad location and then as you know, speaker wire from the CAV6.6 to each speaker location. If your runs are less than 100ft stick with 16ga. wire as it's all that's required and easier to work with when terminating at the CAV. For longer runs bump up to 14ga.

If you think you may ever be interested in Russound's ComPoint intercom systems, you may consider running 16/4 to the keypad location and then 16/2 from there out to each speaker. This will allow you to add ComPoint later, or even switch to a simple impeadance matching volume control system if you find you've blown you HA/audio budget on those nice granite counters.

If you do decide to pre-wire speakers through the keypad location you can just wirenut them together in the box like you'd do for high-voltage wires.

(Sorry, drawing was too large to post... hopefully the explanation is sufficient. If you want to email me, I'll send it to you.

Cheers,
Paul

 

[IVB]

- For HDTV zones you need a local receiver to decode the digital signal.
- For zones with >2 speakers that hence need >20wpc to supply any decent amount of power, you'll need an external amp (or receiver).
- For zones with local audio or video input source, it'll be simpler to just have the one set of wires from receiver ->TV, and let your HA software control the receiver to deal with input switching.

To keep things simple, run your speakers to that receiver (or amp). I drew it with a Denon to keep the diagram simple as there could be a ton of permutations.

However, that means you need a way to distribute analog audio [ie whole house, perhaps CD] to that zone. Hence, also run an analog/2RG6 connection from the CAV66 zone outputs to the Denon. Yes, you'll be bypassing the CAV66 internal amps in this scenario, but I couldn't think of a simpler way to have both digital/component sent to an HDTV zone and analog audio, and have it all be automatable to boot.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

- For HDTV zones you need a local receiver to decode the digital signal.
- For zones with >2 speakers that hence need >20wpc to supply any decent amount of power, you'll need an external amp (or receiver).
- For zones with local audio or video input source, it'll be simpler to just have the one set of wires from receiver ->TV, and let your HA software control the receiver to deal with input switching.

To keep things simple, run your speakers to that receiver (or amp). I drew it with a Denon to keep the diagram simple as there could be a ton of permutations.

However, that means you need a way to distribute analog audio [ie whole house, perhaps CD] to that zone. Hence, also run an analog/2RG6 connection from the CAV66 zone outputs to the Denon. Yes, you'll be bypassing the CAV66 internal amps in this scenario, but I couldn't think of a simpler way to have both digital/component sent to an HDTV zone and analog audio, and have it all be automatable to boot.

- For HDTV zones you need a local receiver to decode the digital signal.

For HDTV, I will utilize my existing MythtV. It will be situated on the basement. But I will have separate mythfrontends(HTPC clients) in different zones(family room, masterbedroom, and loft). My MythTV linux machine has 3 HDTV PCI tuners. It is used for capturing HD/SD local broadcast streams from my external UHF antenna. This uses regular CAT5E wire.

- For zones with >2 speakers that hence need >20wpc to supply any decent amount of power, you'll need an external amp (or receiver).

I don't know what you mean by >20wpc. What is wpc?

- For zones with local audio or video input source, it'll be simpler to just have the one set of wires from receiver ->TV, and let your HA software control the receiver to deal with input switching.
To keep things simple, run your speakers to that receiver (or amp). I drew it with a Denon to keep the diagram simple as there could be a ton of permutations.

However, that means you need a way to distribute analog audio [ie whole house, perhaps CD] to that zone. Hence, also run an analog/2RG6 connection from the CAV66 zone outputs to the Denon. Yes, you'll be bypassing the CAV66 internal amps in this scenario, but I couldn't think of a simpler way to have both digital/component sent to an HDTV zone and analog audio, and have it all be automatable to boot.

Hmmm, I think I'm getting your idea. From your drawing, your CAV 6.6 is connected to the denon via a long haul wire such as RG6. In this case, look at my existing receiver below. Farthest left, bottomost, you will see color orange ports there. It's for digital input. I've got 3 there. So the CAV 6.6 output connects to this one right? If so, if I want to listen to the cd player connected to the CAV 6.6 in the basement, I just change inputs in my Yami receiver. That's sweet.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

v1rtu0s1ty,

I'm attaching a drawing converted to PDF that show keypad & speaker wiring for the CAV6.6. This drawing is a little unique because the speaker wires go from CAV6.6 to wall jacks located in each room where freestanding or bookshelf speakers could be attached. This was done for a customer with a log cabin so in-ceiling and in-wall speakers weren't an option.

Basically you'll need to run a single CAT5 from the CAV6.6 location to each keypad location and then as you know, speaker wire from the CAV6.6 to each speaker location. If your runs are less than 100ft stick with 16ga. wire as it's all that's required and easier to work with when terminating at the CAV. For longer runs bump up to 14ga.

If you think you may ever be interested in Russound's ComPoint intercom systems, you may consider running 16/4 to the keypad location and then 16/2 from there out to each speaker. This will allow you to add ComPoint later, or even switch to a simple impeadance matching volume control system if you find you've blown you HA/audio budget on those nice granite counters.

If you do decide to pre-wire speakers through the keypad location you can just wirenut them together in the box like you'd do for high-voltage wires.

(Sorry, drawing was too large to post... hopefully the explanation is sufficient. If you want to email me, I'll send it to you.

Cheers,
Paul

I PM'd you.

 

[IVB]

From your drawing, your CAV 6.6 is connected to the denon via a long haul wire such as RG6. In this case, look at my existing receiver below. Farthest left, bottomost, you will see color orange ports there. It's for digital input. I've got 3 there. So the CAV 6.6 output connects to this one right? If so, if I want to listen to the cd player connected to the CAV 6.6 in the basement, I just change inputs in my Yami receiver. That's sweet.

Almost. That orange one is a digital signal. The CAV66 outputs analog. Connect the CAV66 via TWO RG6 runs [or a minicoax dual-cable run] to the red/white ones.

To keep things absolutely simple, also do the following in addition to the 2RG6 run above:
1) Connect your HTPC/mythTV clients to the receiver via the orange/digital one for digital audio, and
2) either the composite [yuk] or component [yum, requires component output on your htpc a la purple ATI dongle].
3) other local sources also connect into receiver
4) Connect receiver to TV via a single component connection. Make sure you get a receiver that does upconversion, i think most new Denon's do this.

don't know what you mean by >20wpc. What is wpc?

Watts per channel. The CAV66 is 20 watts per channel which is ok for a single zone for background music. But, if you have more speakers or want to turn it up, you "may" need more power.

I say "may" as it's up to individual tastes. You may feel that you want more "headroom", aka don't use up all the power the amp can supply, as your speakers are darn nice and sound better. Similar to getting that 500HP Benz - who would ever need that? But, some folks feel that it accelerates from 20-30mph that much faster. Or, perhaps you want to drive a zone with 6 speakers. No way would I want to push 20 watts per channel, if I had 3 speakers per channel [3 for left, 3 for right].

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Almost. That orange one is a digital signal. The CAV66 outputs analog. Connect the CAV66 via TWO RG6 runs [or a minicoax dual-cable run] to the red/white ones.

To keep things absolutely simple, also do the following in addition to the 2RG6 run above:
1) Connect your HTPC/mythTV clients to the receiver via the orange/digital one for digital audio, and

Yep, my mythtv's SPDIF out is connected to the receiver via a TOSlink cable for audio. If you look at the picture again above, the upper far left corner, you will see the optical cable. The other end of that optical cable is seen below.

2) either the composite [yuk] or component [yum, requires component output on your htpc a la purple ATI dongle]. 

For the video, I'm using VGA to RGBHV cable directly connected from linux to my HDTV set.

3) other local sources also connect into receiver
4) Connect receiver to TV via a single component connection. Make sure you get a receiver that does upconversion, i think most new Denon's do this.

My yamaha doesn't do upconversion. It's ok since mythtv is directly connected to HDTV set. I also don't play dvd movies anymore from the dvd player. I've converted the movies I love into an .ISO file. Then I ported them to the linux(mythtv) box, then play it from there.

So this CAV6.6 connectivity is really simple to understand. Please click the link for a simple diagram on how I understand it now. Am I correct?

http://restricted.dyndns.org/target/cav66.txt

Is CAV6.6 capable of switching videos too?

 

[IVB]

CAV66 can switch composite video, not component. You'll need something like an Autopatch 4YDM if you want to switch component. You can control that through the PC through a common interface, so no worries about ease of use.

Diagram generally right, 2 exceptions:
1) You're showing "many runs of 14/2 to different rooms". Speakers in rooms without amps or receivers get connected directly to the CAV66. Do you mean 14/2 speaker wire? If so, yes.

2) 2 RG6 runs to receiver [one for left, one for right]. There are mini-coax cables with >1 cable inside, I just ordered a 3-way one for distributing component from tselectronics.com.

Which Yamaha do you have? Is it one of the RXV's with the RS232 port? If so, there's a driver in final beta now so you can control that with CQC as well, making for a FULLY automated and simple-push button system. No need for any remotes. But, that means a serial connection between yamaha & HTPC. That could be a simple CAT5 with RJ45/DB9 adapters.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

CAV66 can switch composite video, not component. You'll need something like an Autopatch 4YDM if you want to switch component. You can control that through the PC through a common interface, so no worries about ease of use.

Diagram generally right, 2 exceptions:
1) You're showing "many runs of 14/2 to different rooms". Speakers in rooms without amps or receivers get connected directly to the CAV66. Do you mean 14/2 speaker wire? If so, yes.

Yes, 14 gauge 2 conductors. Sorry.

2) 2 RG6 runs to receiver [one for left, one for right]. There are mini-coax cables with >1 cable inside, I just ordered a 3-way one for distributing component from tselectronics.com.

Aha, so looking at the outside of the wire, it's just one run of coax but internally, there are 3. That's cool. Which equipment do you use to do component switching? However, that's killing my budget!

So, assuming we only have one digital setup box from a cable tv provider situated near the CAV6.6 equipment, using these minicoax cables connected to the CAV6.6, will allow us to watch from any rooms right? And with this approach, whatever channel you're watching, the same channel is applied to every room. I think that's Ok.

I'm really interested on how the CAV6.6 video coax output looks like, how it gets distributed. Show me a screenshot guys!

Which Yamaha do you have? Is it one of the RXV's with the RS232 port? If so, there's a driver in final beta now so you can control that with CQC as well, making for a FULLY automated and simple-push button system. No need for any remotes. But, that means a serial connection between yamaha & HTPC. That could be a simple CAT5 with RJ45/DB9 adapters.

Nope, I bought this RXV1400 2 years ago. It didn't have any RS232. It's ok.

 

[IVB]

I'm not doing any component switching yet, but i'm running all the pre-wiring as I'm prepping for building out the 2nd floor. First step is to convert the attic into storage space, which means laying down plywood, which means no more trivially easy access to ceiling.

I haven't decided which component switcher to use. CQC has native support for several, so i'll probably pick from that list. (ie neothings avalon, Extron, KeyDigital, Zektor, Autopatch). It's all based on what's available on eBay and what the price is at the time

If you really want a simple automated system where you don't have to think about what dang input each device is connected to your receiver on, consider eBaying tht RXV1400 while you can still get good $$ for it and getting one with RS232 control. You may even be able to do this in a close-to-break-even approach. Someone's selling the RXV1200 for $500 used, I know you can get an RS232 yamaha RXV used for that amount.

So, assuming we only have one digital setup box from a cable tv provider situated near the CAV6.6 equipment, using these minicoax cables connected to the CAV6.6, will allow us to watch from any rooms right? And with this approach, whatever channel you're watching, the same channel is applied to every room. I think that's Ok.

Sure, but now you gotta run an RG6 to each TV room to transmit the composite video signal. If that's ok with you, then go get that 3-way RG6 Minicoax so that if you ever want to bump up to component, you've got the wiring done. You'll only use one of the cables now, but it's so small that you're fine.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

I'm not doing any component switching yet, but i'm running all the pre-wiring as I'm prepping for building out the 2nd floor. First step is to convert the attic into storage space, which means laying down plywood, which means no more trivially easy access to ceiling.

I haven't decided which component switcher to use. CQC has native support for several, so i'll probably pick from that list. (ie neothings avalon, Extron, KeyDigital, Zektor, Autopatch). It's all based on what's available on eBay and what the price is at the time

If you really want a simple automated system where you don't have to think about what dang input each device is connected to your receiver on, consider eBaying tht RXV1400 while you can still get good $$ for it and getting one with RS232 control. You may even be able to do this in a close-to-break-even approach. Someone's selling the RXV1200 for $500 used, I know you can get an RS232 yamaha RXV used for that amount.

So, assuming we only have one digital setup box from a cable tv provider situated near the CAV6.6 equipment, using these minicoax cables connected to the CAV6.6, will allow us to watch from any rooms right? And with this approach, whatever channel you're watching, the same channel is applied to every room. I think that's Ok.

Sure, but now you gotta run an RG6 to each TV room to transmit the composite video signal. If that's ok with you, then go get that 3-way RG6 Minicoax so that if you ever want to bump up to component, you've got the wiring done. You'll only use one of the cables now, but it's so small that you're fine.

hey guys, for whole house speaker wiring, how many conductors should I get?

Should I use:

1.) 18/2
2.) 18/4
3.) 16/2
4.) 16/4
5.) 14/2
6.) 14/4

I know guys we have different opinion. I want to hear them. I will be able to decide which to buy. I'm leaning towards 4 conductors since there will be fewer runs.

Okidoke, please let me know.

Thanks,

Neil

 

[ellisr63]

If you have any questions about the Autopatch i will tell you what I know..

 

[IVB]

Depends on the length of the run. I bi-wired 16/4 for my long runs [100'], used the single 16/4 for both speakers for my short runs. The single 16/4 was definitely simpler for those.

nice thing is, you can buy just the one spool of 16/4 and you're set. I got some Belkin from markertek.com, can find the model # tomorrow if you're interested. (i *think* it was 5102, not sure). It's awesome - very flexible jacket, was relatively inexpensive to boot. something like $0.30/foot.