Special Brultech ECM-1220.H offer to cocoontech members.

[beelzerob]

I'd just like to point out that so far, I'm the only one that appears "right" in everyone's post....

Will, I know dBeau has installed one...the only one I've heard of. had only good things to say about it I think. There's an "older" (like 1 week) thread on the Brultech where he mentions it.

 

[Skibum]

Hmmm Seems that you are correct... we'll have to change that.

I have no doubt that the device is great, the software is great and the company is great... that was not and is not my point..

 

[Steve]

And who is this Turk fellow?

The computer programmed to play chess, from Terminator, Sarah Connor Chronicles.

 

[Steve]

I have no doubt that the device is great, the software is great and the company is great... that was not and is not my point..

Alrighty then... go back to your TED thread.

TED good, ECM good

Ok, I think that's enough 'fun' for this thread, lets get it back on track for those following along...

 

[Skibum]

Yes.. please report any shocking experiences and fire code violations.

 

[Btech]

Yes.. please report any shocking experiences and fire code violations.

May I throw in my 2 cents here?

In my opinion, safety is always a good topic of discussion. As for CT installation, the CTs should only be installed by a qualified individual. This person will understand that the CT cable must exit the panel before any low-voltage connection is made and will make sure the CT secondary cable is not in a position that it can be potentialy pinched, damaged or make contact with line voltage. He/she will also ensure that the exiting CT cable is properly anchored.

As for how safe the signal from the CTs will be, I have included a diagram of how well the CT signal is isolated from the line voltage. I have included UL numbers for the CT material used.

http://www.mypowerpanel.com/CT%20insulation.png

The picture below has two sets of CTs. This is because there are two monitors connected to this panel for testing purposes.

http://www.mypowerpanel.com/CTinPanel.jpg

 

[Btech]

So is there an free SDK for those of us that would want to use a more main stream software package such as HomeSeer for monitoring this hardware?

There are protocol documents and some vb source code (not vb.net, old vb) that Paul sent me when I asked for them. They are not on the web site. I asked for them because I write my own software and I wanted to see how difficult the protocol was before I bought the unit. That's an important part of any product evaluation for me.

The protocol is pretty simple to use and it only took me a week or so to create a .net assembly to communicate with the unit, and a xAP assembly to broadcast the state. Since I don't have a unit yet these are totally untested, but the point is the protocol is pretty easy to use.

He mentioned another packet type (that would make 3) that has additional information for use with solar/wind systems, but that's not in the documentation currently. I look forward to this info being added. I'll probably buy a unit once I see the cocoontech special tomorrow.

I see some features that do not appear to be in the protocol that I would like, but I'll wait to get one and actually use the protocol before I start whining (errr... expressing interest in) these missing items.

Matt

The source for this code was taken from here and we made a few changes :

http://www.codeworks.it/net/VBNetRs232.htm (thanks to Corrado Cavalli's for the fine

vb.net serial communication demo)

OK Mat, what is missing that you would like to see? Power Factor? Apparent Power?

Ok... you asked

The things I didn't see are a way to determine which real time packet format (Power, Energy, or the new one) is being sent, and also how to set the format. In my code I wait for a specific number of characters in the buffer, so I need a way to determine how many chars to wait for. Right now I just hardcoded it for Energy mode. I would also like to see the structure for the third packet mode.

I didn't see a way to set the storage interval for the downloaded data either. I can get it during the download data process, but how can I set it. A separate command to get the interval would be nice but not really necessary.

The reset command isn't in the documentation, but I used the sample code to add that to my code.

The storage interval is 1 to 255, and it's returned as 2 bytes. Are they 7 bit bytes and I ignore the high bit, or do I ignore one of the bytes? This I figured I would figure out once I had a unit.

I also wasn't clear on how to figure out the date and time of a downloaded record. The docs say:

The data-logger’s “data” information is sent out as one big block in step 5 above. To assemble this data,
two pieces of information are required:
1. The start time and date of monitoring.
2. The storage interval
Since the ECM-1220 does not have a real-time clock, a time and date has to be provided for the beginning
of the monitoring at which time the ECM was reset. The storage interval value is provided by the two bytes
received in step #3 above.

I'm not understanding this. What are the steps I need to do?

I figured using the code with a real unit would clarify some of my questions.

Matt,

Thanks for your response. I will make this brief since I'm about to leave for an appointment.

There are codes to change the the interval time and unit settings (including reset). Also I can flowchart the methods reading the packets.

I will clarify all of this later and answer all of these questions when I get back. Thanks for pointing that out.


Paul

Mat, We have some sample vb.net code which communicates with the ECM-1220 and displays

the variables. It uses our new packet format the new firmware for this is posted on our

site. It is not posted anywhere right now but if you email me I can send it to you.


Matt I now have the packet information and flowcharting. I still need to dig up some command for you. If you want to email me at [email protected], then I can forward the information to you.

 

[Digger]

Yes.. please report any shocking experiences and fire code violations.

May I throw in my 2 cents here?

In my opinion, safety is always a good topic of discussion. As for CT installation, the CTs should only be installed by a qualified individual. This person will understand that the CT cable must exit the panel before any low-voltage connection is made and will make sure the CT secondary cable is not in a position that it can be potentialy pinched, damaged or make contact with line voltage. He/she will also ensure that the exiting CT cable is properly anchored.

As for how safe the signal from the CTs will be, I have included a diagram of how well the CT signal is isolated from the line voltage. I have included UL numbers for the CT material used.

http://www.mypowerpanel.com/CT%20insulation.png

The picture below has two sets of CTs. This is because there are two monitors connected to this panel for testing purposes.

http://www.mypowerpanel.com/CTinPanel.jpg

As someone who does safety compliance for a living and worked at UL for over 12 years my opinion is that from the information the mfg provided it was done right! My comment to someone to make sure to use the CT wire inside the panel was just to make sure that nobody runs another type of wire into the panel and splices it there. Someone somewhere is bound to make this oversight one of these days. I just didnt want it to be anyone I knew.

I would not be buying this product myself and putting it in my home if I had a concern about the product. I am concerned that someone might try and install it and not have the level of experience needed to do it safely. That can happen with things bought in Home Depot as I mentioned. There is only so much a mfg can do to minimize a customer from getting hurt. Trust me I struggle everyday at work to make things as "idiot proof" (no offense to anyone anywhere) as I can. I spend hundreds of thousands of dollars at UL and ETL as well to help insure the products I work on are safe as well. Even then something could happen someday to someone. Thats reality.

This and the TED both seem like great products. I think people should choose which one they like best.

 

[jharrell]

You would have to be nuts to run Cat 5 to your breaker panel.
I have serious reservations about Steve's suggestion above as well..


IMHO the whole remote idea is flawed with this device.
The black box wireless unit should be at the Breaker Panel and transmit to the receiver with the display.

So let me get this straight, your worried about a low voltage communication to the display but your ok with the TED which uses HIGH VOLTAGE comm? You see that wall outlet the TEDs plugged into, it's directly connected to the main panel, OMG pull the plug.

Get the CT's installed properly and the wires coming out of there are safer than your 120v wall outlet.

TED's a fine device, but no need to find some kind of safety issue with the Brultech because it uses hardwired LV to the display, that's just silly.

 

[Skibum]

So let me get this straight, your worried about a low voltage communication to the display but your ok with the TED which uses HIGH VOLTAGE comm? You see that wall outlet the TEDs plugged into, it's directly connected to the main panel, OMG pull the plug.

Get the CT's installed properly and the wires coming out of there are safer than your 120v wall outlet.

TED's a fine device, but no need to find some kind of safety issue with the Brultech because it uses hardwired LV to the display, that's just silly.

If you are comfortable with your solution, then I am happy for you.
Your arguement here is just silly.

I stick by what I say. IMHO There is no way that this is code:

 

[Rupp]

Is there anyway we can get this thread separated into 3 threads. One that has pertinent installation information, one for the safety aspects, and another for the users that want to argue the safety aspects?

 

[Digger]

So let me get this straight, your worried about a low voltage communication to the display but your ok with the TED which uses HIGH VOLTAGE comm? You see that wall outlet the TEDs plugged into, it's directly connected to the main panel, OMG pull the plug.

Get the CT's installed properly and the wires coming out of there are safer than your 120v wall outlet.

TED's a fine device, but no need to find some kind of safety issue with the Brultech because it uses hardwired LV to the display, that's just silly.

If you are comfortable with your solution, then I am happy for you.
Your arguement here is just silly.

I stick by what I say. IMHO There is no way that this is code:

I am not going to state this as a fact nor say I am an expert but it appears that Brultech did their homework. The CT wires themselves carry low voltage and are most likely considered Power Limited. The conductors of those wires must be suitably isolated from the mains voltages in the panel. To do this they would need to either maintain a minimum of 0.25 inches between power limited and non power limited or have the proper type of insulation on the CT wires and CT themselves. They chose to go with the insulation it seems since I would imagine that they would not want to rely on the installer and any service person in the future to maintain this seperation of circuits reliably.

Again I am not swearing on a bible but it looks like the approached this correctly.


Here is an example of seperation of circuits that might surprise you. In many newer products a switchmode power supply is used for effeciency. The switching transformer provides isolation from mains voltages to the secondary side of the power supply circuit. Often the only physical barrier between the primary and secondary windings of the transformer are 3 layers or more of polyester tape 0.05 mm thick or they use a UL recognized component triple insulated wire on the primary OR the secondary windings. That is a heck of a lot thinner than you would think and isolates the primary from the secondary. Even one layer of polyester tape can withstand about 5Kv dielectric withstand test. Multiple layers are required for redundant protection in case of a pinhole in one layer etc.

Again I am comfortable with what they have done but its a personal decision.

 

[Skibum]

Is there anyway we can get this thread separated into 3 threads. One that has pertinent installation information, one for the safety aspects, and another for the users that want to argue the safety aspects?

Sorry guys

Obviously my attempted points are falling on deaf ears. I'll go away now.
(Not mad, I'll just go away)

Enjoy.

 

[electron]

Can someone please post some pictures of their install, assuming you installed them correctly. It looks like there is some confusion, and you know what they say about pictures.

 

[Digger]

Is there anyway we can get this thread separated into 3 threads. One that has pertinent installation information, one for the safety aspects, and another for the users that want to argue the safety aspects?

Sorry guys

Obviously my attempted points are falling on deaf ears. I'll go away now.
(Not mad, I'll just go away)

Enjoy.

Actualy I am glad you stick to your beleifs (I definitely respect that). Your questions/concerns are very valid to ask and you may be correct and I may be incorrect. If you dont ask someone might not know something they need to know to make the right choice for themselves.

Stick around.......