Square D Clipsal as an alternate to Colorado vNet

[SquareDClipsal NE rep]

For anyone out there looking for an alternate and easily interchangeable product to Colorado vNet, I would suggest taking a look at Square D Clipsal Lighting and Automation by Schneider Electric ($20+ billion global sales). Although Clipsal is relatively new to the US, there’s 50K+ system installations over the last 10 years internationally. We cover lighting, touchpanels, occupancy sensors, multi room audio, HVAC, web interface, etc. Compact 4 and 8 zone dimming modules are DIN rail mounted and 100+ components daisy chain together on a Cat.5 cable up to 3300ft. There’s also a wireless RF dimmer offering for traditional wiring applications. Web sites are: www.mySEhome.com and www.squaredlightingcontrol.com and www.schneider-electric.us

I offer the statements below, from Colorado vNet, which apply almost directly to Square D Clipsal. Change the product name and this text could be used to describe the Clipsal system (if not for copyright infringement of course).

(Colorado vNet is) "Designed primarily for new construction, our Lighting & Control System is not only the most reliable, scalable, and stylish system in the industry, it’s also the easiest to install.

(The Colorado vNet) system uses the same cutting-edge CAN (Controller Area Network) technology found in automotive, medical, and real-time life-critical control applications. Inputs fly at the speed of thought over standard CAT5e cable, which carries both data and power, dramatically simplifying installation. At the end of every cable is a plug-in module; if there’s a problem, simply replace the module. The system stays up the entire time.

There is no central processor in the Colorado vNet Lighting & Control System. Each module independently handles its own processing, making the system extremely reliable because there is no single point of failure. This distributed intelligence also provides scalability. You can add single modules or several at a time, without having to add processing power.

“Life Simplifiedâ€â€¦that’s our philosophy at Colorado vNet. From the idea that our Touchpads and keypads should fit standard junction boxes to the notion that our Dimming Module should handle nearly all standard lighting loads to the belief that you shouldn’t need a PhD in order to program a customized system, we try to extend our way of thinking to our customers. “

Square D Clipsal has ongoing training/certification classes being held at various locations throughout the country.

If you would like to learn more about Square D Clipsal as an alternate to Colorado vNet, please contact us directly:

Jamie Stott - Northeast - [email protected]
Neil Moodie - West Coast - [email protected]
Mark Hobart - Southeast - [email protected]
Scott Spear - Florida and Gulf Coast - [email protected]
Buzz Carruth - South Central - [email protected]
Bob Sobota - Rocky Mountains - [email protected]
Dave Johnson - Midwest - [email protected]


Best Regards,

Jamie Stott
Square D Clipsal by Schneider Electric
Business Development Specialist - Northeast and Midatlantic
804-467-7236
[email protected]

 

[Neurorad]

What about Square D Clipsal, not as an alternative to vNet?

 

[mustangcoupe]

Yes Please tell us more about this system and it's pricing... I like the look of the keypads. How can this be interogated with software is it proprietary? or can software developers talk to your devices? do you have a SDK do you have adapters to go from rs232 to can or tcpip (ethernet) to can?

 

[icellama21]

What is your sales and installation model? Is access to the product and software controlled by license or can sparky get his hands on it? What about direct consumer sales? Do your professional installers work on a commercial model(high reliability, large volume, standard installs) or a residential model(highly custom, lots of hand holding/service, large installer profit margins)? What is a typical price for a residential install(per sqft, light, system, etc?) Thanks!

 

[Neurorad]

same post from Square D was on remotecentral.com, so he may not be back any time soon

 

[electron]

I have been in contact with Jamie, asking him to provide more info (first attempt to post was blocked). I normally wouldn't allow these kind of posts, but since many Cocooners want to know more about this product line, I'm hoping that Jamie will keep answering our questions (I just sent him another e-mail requesting he monitor this thread).

 

[SquareDClipsal NE rep]

What is your sales and installation model? Is access to the product and software controlled by license or can sparky get his hands on it? What about direct consumer sales? Do your professional installers work on a commercial model(high reliability, large volume, standard installs) or a residential model(highly custom, lots of hand holding/service, large installer profit margins)? What is a typical price for a residential install(per sqft, light, system, etc?) Thanks!

Mustangcoupe, icellama21 and Electron,

I wanted to get back with you promptly to answer your questions and will be happy to speak with you by phone or even set up a conference call with one of our engineers if we need to get more detailed than is effectively possible on this forum.

As you might expect, we can interface with any other manfacturer that talks RS232. Also, we make our software protocol available to those who would like to adapt or design their products to talk more directly to the Clipsal system on our C-Bus network. We also have an ethernet communication device for remote programming access and a homeowner friendly interface for remote access via internet, iPhone, web tablet, etc. Clipsal also works very well with HAI and also with Elk Security. Additional technical information about installation an wiring can be gained by goin through our "C-Bus Tutorial" which can be found at www.squaredlightingcontrol.com in the training section.

We have an Approved Installer Program, so those that are purchasing and installing Square D Clipsal have been through the training and are equipped to effectively execute projects. There are few exceptions to this which would utilize a factory programming option, but this practice is being phased out of residential work and will be available only for commercial startup (similar to how Lutron an others commission commercial projects). Square D Clipsal is sold through Authorized Square D distributors and generally the regional Square D Clipsal rep (me in the Northeast) is generally your main point of contact. So, whether the customer is an A/V low voltage integrator or a certified electrician, they can access the product if they have been to training.

Square D Clipsal is suited quite well for both custom residential work as well as repeatable commercial work. Example: A. 18K sqft home with over 100 keypads nd over 100 zones of light and integrated with AMX, B. military training facility with 4 conference rooms on each of 4 floors-each room with 4 zones of dimmable flourescent lights, C. 10 Oceanfront townhomes with 8 keypads, 1 touchpanel, 16 zones of light and the same programming used on each.

Regarding pricing, we are generally competitive if not offering even greater value than the competition. Let me know if I can be of any assistance with any project quotes.

If you like what you've read so far, I would suggest we make contact by phone or set up a meeting next time I'm in your area. There's only so much we can accomplish on the forum, but hopefully this is helpful. Let me know if you have any additional questions. I'm signing off for the weekend now, but will respond to any further inquiries on Monday.

Best Regards,

Jamie Stott
Square D Clipsal by Schneider Electric
Business Development Specialist
804-467-7236
[email protected]

 

[FrankMc]

Hi Guys

I control my CBUS Lights/Matrix switcher via a cbus pci (pc interface) using Homevision....Here in Australia Ness Security (Elk distributors) have a cbus interface for the ELK M1...Software programmes such as xPL ,Xap ,CQC have plugins for CBUS....

HTH
Frank

 

[Spanky]

Clipsal Cbus controls a large majority of the Australian automation market. Ness Security in Australia has engineered a very complete interface from the Elk (Ness) M1 to the Cbus data bus. Elk Products in the US sells that Cbus interface for the M1.

 

[elcano]

I have been in contact with Jamie, asking him to provide more info (first attempt to post was blocked). I normally wouldn't allow these kind of posts, but since many Cocooners want to know more about this product line, I'm hoping that Jamie will keep answering our questions (I just sent him another e-mail requesting he monitor this thread).

I appreciate the opportunity to learn about the CAN technology in which Clipsal and vNet are based on.

We have an Approved Installer Program, so those that are purchasing and installing Square D Clipsal have been through the training and are equipped to effectively execute projects.

It looks like this is a certified-installer-based-product. Which usually means very good quality products/services, bundled with relatively expensive training courses that keeps a high barrier to entry for DIYers, relatively fixed list prices and relative market/margins protection for the installer/dealer (to protect the business model and the installer investment). The affluent non-DIYers and installers form a very valuable ecosystem with this business model. But IMHO it is not as valuable for non-affluent DIYers (the big share of cocooners, isn´t it?).

Jamie, is the software protocol spec open? I mean, may I as an open source developer download it from a site and develop interfaces around it without having to pay or sign any NDA or other paperwork?

 

[troymt]

I have a client who just completed a Clipsal system install.

System seems pretty robust but is in no way for the DIY'er as it seems to be a closed channel and is NOT cheap.

I was not impressed with the touchscreens or keypads myself, maybe a subjective opinion but I expected more for the price.

Also the programmer was flown in from Chicago (1600 miles away). But to be fair everything is 1600 miles away when you live in Montana .

 

[FrankMc]

Hi Elanco

Have a look here regarding clipsal serial protocol...

http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5022

HTH
Frank

PS....btw i programmed my own CBUS system and as yet havent done any CBUS courses..

 

[fleetz]

I have a C-Bus system throughout our new house. It is absolutely bullet proof! Clipsal (Square-D) Toolkit which is the confiuration software is is free is very mature and a breeze to use.

I did the basic C-Bus training with Clipsal a few years back. Not sure if they are still doing the same offer but in Australia it was $990AUD which included a 8ch dimmer unit, a CPU controller and a couple of Neo Key pads, all of which finished up in our new house. BTW the trade price on the gear was around $1500AUD at the time and I got quality 3 day training by Clipsal.....score.

I also have a Ness M1 system with there C-Bus interface which as Spanky has said is now sold by them in the US. The interface is seamless and does what you ask of it. The relationship between ELK and Ness is as I see it very complimentary.

Have a look at the Square-D keypads especially the DLT (Dynamic Labelling Technology) units, I opted to install these throughout the house ........these in my oppinion is the icing on the cake....very slick. Their Saturn keypads look nice too but the DLT are the go.

Where there is a new installation C-Bus should be seriously considered as the system to install. C-Bus has recently appear in the US market however the C-Bus system has been in Australia for 15 years so Austalia for the most part have sorted out the system here over the years to the point that Square-D has released a robust, mature and attractive light and power management system that is second to none.

The other nice thing with C-Bus is there is a great support forum which is run by Clipsal in Australia that has a similiar community to the one we enjoy here wit Cocoontech. The nice thing is if you need to get answers you get them from the folks that actually have developed the system. http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/

Have serious look ...it is a serious system!

My 2 cents.

Regards,

Fleetz

 

[electron]

C-Bus does sound great, but if you aren't allowed to buy the hardware and install it yourself, I think it might be out of reach for most Cocooners. Wish they would change their mind on that one.

 

[TXFlatLander]

C-Bus does sound great, but if you aren't allowed to buy the hardware and install it yourself, I think it might be out of reach for most Cocooners. Wish they would change their mind on that one.

Agreed. I am very much of the opinion of "why pay someone else for something I can do myself", besides learning & installing the technology is fun and you get to enjoy the fruits of your labor. Also, if it breaks, I don't have to call in someone to fix it -- I probably already know the issue or can find out from the great community we have here.