UPB Smoke detector?

[wdeertz]

I recently installed an Omni Pro II in my house with all perimeter zones hard wired.  The house was prewired with only one additional zone in the hallway which I installed a 4 wire smoke detector.  I'd like to add a few more smoke detectors but getting wire to the needed locations will not be easy.  I have about 10 AC wired smoke detectors and since I am using UPB for lighting wanted to ask if UPB smoke detectors existed and were an option with the HAI.
 
If a UPB smoke detector doesn't exist can someone please recommend a wireless solution?  I have the 45A00 wireless receiver which is being used for motion detectors so would prefer to utilize this rather than need to install another interface.
 
I am new to the forum so appreciate all recommendations.

 

[tmbrown97]

There's no such thing as UPB smoke detectors - it's not a reliable enough protocol.  Since HAI doesn't have their own smokes, I think your best solution is to use a QuikBridge device that is essentially a standalone GE receiver that maps channels to hardwired input zones.  If you want 4 smokes, you need a 4 channel and enough open hardwired inputs on your panel. 

 

[wdeertz]

Work2Play, thanks for confirming what I thought.  I'm new to the home automation scene but surprised to see you say UPB is unreliable.  One reason I chose this protocol is that my research seemed to indicate it was more reliable than Z-wave.  Is this not the case?

 

[neillt]

UPB is extremely reliable for lighting and load control.
 
But when you start talking about smoke detectors, you are talking about life safety.  That's a whole new ball game from lighting control.  It requires 2-way supervision, UL certification, etc.  

 

[tmbrown97]

:hesaid:
 
Sorry - didn't mean to give the impression it's not reliable enough - I have a very large UPB install that I have zero problems with - it's bulletproof and I read threads all the time that reaffirm my choice and satisfaction.  That said I wouldn't count on it for life safety.
 
I'm not an expert so this is just my understanding - but from what I understand, these are the key differences... the frequency spectrum used for devices like this (security) is a lower frequency with decent penetration through building materials allowing it to travel well; beyond that it's in a frequency range that's dedicated for devices that can only send short bursts and only when they have a good reason; different from cordless phones or wifi in that they're constantly chatting back and forth - these devices make a single short millisecond burst maybe once an hour if all is normal meaning that they have virtually zero interference.  In addition they retransmit several times - I know it's like 8 for security sensors - I wouldn't be surprised if fire safety are much more just for good measure.
 
So while UPB is great - I'd hate to think someone could die or the house could suffer more damage because a fire happened right when a noisy pool pump was screwing up the power lines or while my neighbor was welding (hypothetical - never had an issue)... and I just don't see UL ever listing a protocol like UPB for something so critical. 
 
Another thought - lightning strike hits the house - blows your phase coupler and other components on the electrical system and starts a fire - now the fire alarm doesn't trigger because the smokes are on the opposite phase...   or of course there's the fact that UPB doesn't connect to the main board - it's an accessory board and though I'd never do it, many people use a single PIM that they share for programming and day to day control; imagine having a problem after you forgot to move the PIM back to the M1...
 
OK I'm now :horse:        :unsure:

 

[wdeertz]

Thanks for all the replies, I can definitely now see the pitfalls of a UPB smoke detector. I guess I'll need to bite the bullet and string wires even if it means tearing up the ceiling.

 

[Ernie]

Just weighing in here.  I do not know of a UPB fire detector, but that is a moot point.  Even if there is one, it would not be compatible with the Omni Pro II, as the only UPB supported is for lighting.
 
The use of the Quik Bridge loop receiver is a good option, with the only caveat being you have to have hardwired zones on the controller in order to make the channel output connections from the receiver.
 
Another alternative would be to use the LS&A model 42A00-2.  This is a (GE) wireless receiver built on the Quik Bridge technology, and supports most of the same sensors as the Quik Bridge.
 
If you send an email to [email protected], they can provide you with documentation on the product.

 

[tmbrown97]

yeah - tearing up the ceiling is rarely the best route - if wires can't be run there are alternatives.... but running wires isn't usually as bad as it seems either.

 

[wdeertz]

Can anyone recommend a solution to link my 10 AC wired smoke detectors into the Omni Pro 2?  I am covered when my home is occupied as the 10 smoke detectors cover the entire premises.  The issue is when I am traveling if one of these smoke detectors trip it isn't monitored by the OP2.  I am thinking of some sort of listening device that could listen for the high shrill alarm from these 10 AC wired smoke detectors which would connect to the OP2 and trigger a fire alarm.  Ive seen smoke detectors that will link amongst themselves so if one triggers it triggers the others so am wondering if i could use this sort of system in my setup.
 
Any suggestions?

 

[pete_c]

Any suggestions?

 
Not really for connecting 10 AC wireled smoke detectors into the Omni Pro 2.   
 
I added a zoned second set of detectors wired to my Omini Pro 2 panel.  2nd floor and basement were easy.  Main floor was a PITA to do and I did it concurrently while repaining / redecorating rooms.
 
IE I installed in ceiling speakers concurrent to one HAI connected smoke detector in the family room.
 
I did the zoning because I wanted to give it a try.  It would be fine though if all of the smokes where in one zone.  WAF is OK about the ceiling "clutter".