UPS causing interference with UPB

T

tomatopi

Member
I've got a UPB setup and everything was working perfectly until I installed my UPS on my server. Now I've got noise everywhere and have all kinds of problems reading and programming devices. It's a PowerWare/Eaton 2000VA unit running off a dedicated 20A circuit with no UPB devices on that circuit. It just seems to "bleed" lots of noise into the rest of the house and it's giving me grief.

What do other people do when there's a UPS running? Are there some UPS units that are more UPB friendly than others?
 
This is a known problem with many UPS units. I have an APC unit, and although it does not seem to generate noise on the power line, I connect it to the outlet through a UPB filter.

tenholde

Peter said:
I've got a UPB setup and everything was working perfectly until I installed my UPS on my server. Now I've got noise everywhere and have all kinds of problems reading and programming devices. It's a PowerWare/Eaton 2000VA unit running off a dedicated 20A circuit with no UPB devices on that circuit. It just seems to "bleed" lots of noise into the rest of the house and it's giving me grief.

What do other people do when there's a UPS running? Are there some UPS units that are more UPB friendly than others?
Click to expand...
 
UPSs, surge protectors and bad power supplies are the enemy of powerline based protocols. A filter will probably be your only reliable solution.
 
OK, that's what I figured. Now for the fun question. The UPS is on a dedicated 20A circuit and draws 16A of power. I've only seen UPB filters up to 15A rating so far. It's a 2000VA expandable unit and all the 2000VA expandables I've used need a 20A circuit.

Can anybody point me towards a filter that would do the job?
 
I am not using UPB. I have X10 and Insteon so in my case I needed a X10 Filter on my APC BX1000 UPS to make the system happy.
 
BLH said:
I am not using UPB. I have X10 and Insteon so in my case I needed a X10 Filter on my APC BX1000 UPS to make the system happy.
Click to expand...

I'm 80% certain I have the same UPS from APC.

No issues here. I use BOTH X10 and UPB. I typically see REALLY high signal strength on all my UPB devices, and in this house, have not seen a X10 device not trigger when it's supposed to (I might have missed one...but I have not noted it).

--Dan
 
Just curious. A filter would probably be the solution if you can find one for that load. I'd like to know if you could attenuate the noise by either adding an extension cord then see what noise levels are or put the 20A breaker on the other phase of the panel and see if that improves things any. Usually if I can put all UPB devices on say phase A then any noise culpret on phase B, you'll notice imporovements.

If you have several devices this may not be possible but it would be worth at least moving the 20A breaker to the other phase.


I wonder how many people use the PCS split phase repeater? Could it improve communication in the existance of noise?
 
I have a BestPower/Eaton UPS, not APC. It's more a server-grade rack unit with external battery packs and runs off a NEMA5-20 plug. The equivelant APC uses either the same 20A plug or a 20A twist-lock plug which would also be a pain. I would expect the larger the UPS, the more chances for noise because of the larger draw capacity, but I may be wrong on that. I'm not about to get another 2000VA unit from APC to test noise level since that's just way too expensive as an experiment.

I don't have a problem triggering devices on or off, but I can't discover any new devices or use UpStart to program any existing devices unless I cut the breaker to the UPS (not really a good idea if you ask me). I get 100% signal and no noise with UPS breaker off, and 30% signal w/ 15-25% noise with it on. It's a huge drop in quality, not just a minor drop.

I have seen 20A X10 filters but UPB filters seem to cap-out at 15A. The UPS does have a draw rating of 16A so it definitely needs the 20A circuit.
 
Tried the phase thing already. Same phase gives higher signal and less noise, but still enough that I can't discover devices, even those on the same circuit as the PIM.

I tried an extension cord and different circuit to the PIM with no success. Not about to put an extension cord on a 20A circuit, though.
 
For anyone who is using UPB filters, I'm curious to know what type of filters you're using, what loads you've got behind them, and how much they help.

I had noticed a few months ago that my plasma tv (Pioneer Kuro 60") generated a lot of powerline noise, and ordered a Simply Automated ZNF 10A plug-in filter and plugged my plasma tv into it. Well, my plasma tv started making a loud buzzing noise which made me worried so i didn't leave it in place. AFAICT, my plasma draws less than 10A so i'm not sure why this was a problem, but i was thinking about trying an inline filter instead..

I haven't seen the powerline noise problem with my 1500va apc smartups but maybe i don't have enough load behind it?
 
The thing I am to understand about using Upstart is that there is more information passing back and forth between the units. In a normal working environment most times noise won't be a huge issue but to run tests or program anything could pose a problem. Try programming everything without the noise and see if things work after that. It just may but I understand the concern.

I would be curious if the X10 20A would be succesful at blocking the noise from getting into the powerline. I know it's a different bandwith but I have used a 5amp plug in filter on a TV that fixed the problem for me.
 
Just wanted to let everyone know, I have an APC RS1000, not a BX.

Seems to be as if it was not plugged in at all.

--Dan
 
This talk of "filters" with UPB raises some questions in my mind. Thinking for a moment about the endless hassles with X-10 and filters to eliminate signal suckers, are we headed in sort of the same direction with UPB?

Also, is there a similar issue with Z-Wave. I shouldn't think so since it's not using the power line for transmission.

I'm just trying to keep an eye on these issues while I make up my mind as to which protocol to go with.
 
Powerline noise will always be a factor for protocols that use the powerline. I had a house full of filters when I was using X10, using UPB I'm down to two of them. Zwave while not effected by powerline noise can be effected by RF noise or dead spots caused by metal beams, granite countertops, other RF interference, etc. Whoever it was that said there is no perfect protocol yet or we'd all be using it, was right, hardwired comes as close as you're gonna get. :P
 
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