Water shut-off valves

[opie]

I'll share a couple thoughts.

Yes the ELK valve isn't cheap but I like the fact that it has been engineered and tested for it's purpose. Not to say that you can't duplicate or approach their quality but I remember when it firs came out, David (Spanky) wrote about the many combinations they tested, and the failures they had, before settling on the current product. With something as critical as a water shut-off, I don't want to experiment. If you ever have a serious water leak, the price of the ELK valve becomes very trivial...just a thought.

I'll second or third (or whatever) WaterCop as a good runner-up to the ELK valve. One nice feature they have for new construction is the ability to install just the valve and add the actuator later.

As far as Spytown, I had a very bad experience with them. I placed an order for an item that was listed as "Usually ships in 2-3 days" and received a confirmation. After a week, I asked for a tracking number via email.....no response. Another week later I called several times before I reached a human and after 20 minutes was told it was on back order for 2 more weeks so I canceled the order. Not saying this is always how they do business but this was my experience.

 

[Digger]

A seller should let a customer know of a back order within a business day of the order and let them know when the item will be available and offer a refund if that is not acceptable. Back orders happen but ignoring the customer is just not acceptable in my opinion.

 

[icellama21]

I like the fact that Elk has done the choosing for me - I believe they've found a quality valve to slap their name on.

It's probably higher quality than necessary, and you could probably save $100 and go with a different brand, especially if you set a rule to 'exercise' the valve regularly.

I don't disagree that the ELK valve is high quality. But this is not just an issue of cost/quality. The volume and distribution channels that ELK uses add a lot to the cost. There are many manufacturers that have similar products that are tested for extreme conditions. The WSV seems to compare well to a $200 valve(designed to be sold to builders and plumbers), and that is probably close to what ELK sells it for. The rest of the cost is due to its status as a consumer product(distribution, marketing, dealers, low volume, etc). For $400 you can get yourself a fire sprinkler valve designed for 2" pipe that can bend an iron rod, not just a pencil.

I just wanted to point out that the consumer distribution channels have very limited selection of products. You can get much higher quality for the same price if you find a good professional distributor. Right now the pro shops seem quite willing to sell to homeowners.

 

[charliebarns]

I like the fact that Elk has done the choosing for me - I believe they've found a quality valve to slap their name on.

It's probably higher quality than necessary, and you could probably save $100 and go with a different brand, especially if you set a rule to 'exercise' the valve regularly.

I don't disagree that the ELK valve is high quality. But this is not just an issue of cost/quality. The volume and distribution channels that ELK uses add a lot to the cost. There are many manufacturers that have similar products that are tested for extreme conditions. The WSV seems to compare well to a $200 valve(designed to be sold to builders and plumbers), and that is probably close to what ELK sells it for. The rest of the cost is due to its status as a consumer product(distribution, marketing, dealers, low volume, etc). For $400 you can get yourself a fire sprinkler valve designed for 2" pipe that can bend an iron rod, not just a pencil.

I just wanted to point out that the consumer distribution channels have very limited selection of products. You can get much higher quality for the same price if you find a good professional distributor. Right now the pro shops seem quite willing to sell to homeowners.

any examples of pro valves?

thx

cb

 

[icellama21]

any examples of pro valves?

thx

cb

I would be doing a disservice by encouraging DIYers to go out and buy industrial valves off of the internet. Get some advice from your local sources. There are plenty of valves that will work at all different price ranges, but there are many valve types that are not well suited. The brands will depend on the linecard of your supplier or plumber. Maybe there is a commercial plumber out there lurking who can chime in. I was just pointing out that every consumer product is represented in the industrial/commercial world, and if you can find a distributor to work with you(used to be quite hard), you can get good stuff for similar prices.

FWIW, a quick google search popped up Betis, Dynaquip, AssuredAutomation, BiTorq, TriTec, Duravalve, Siemens, Valworx, Honeywell, Rotork, etc, but I have no opinion on these or other brands.

 

[Digger]

The ELK-WSV operates on 12 Vdc and is easy enough to have battery backup through your alarm system (I have 2 aux power supplies on my set up anyway). The watercop and many (not all) industrial valves operate on 120V.

I have a watercop and it works fine but I do wish I had the battery backup on it but I would have to buy a UPS. That would make it much more expensive then the ELK valve. If the ELK valve was out at the time I would have bought it.

So far I have not found a drinking water grade automated valve for less then $300 or so but I am not saying they are not out there. I asked for quotes from two places and will see.

 

[icellama21]

The ELK-WSV operates on 12 Vdc and is easy enough to have battery backup through your alarm system (I have 2 aux power supplies on my set up anyway). The watercop and many (not all) industrial valves operate on 120V.

I have a watercop and it works fine but I do wish I had the battery backup on it but I would have to buy a UPS. That would make it much more expensive then the ELK valve. If the ELK valve was out at the time I would have bought it.

So far I have not found a drinking water grade automated valve for less then $300 or so but I am not saying they are not out there. I asked for quotes from two places and will see.

For something that just works, the ELK valve seems to be great. I just can't justify the cost of hiring a plumber (200 min out here) to install a new valve when I can just put one on the existing valve. I'm OK doing some screw tapping and improvising. One nice feature of the watercop is the wireless water detectors, no automation system required. Better for builders looking to install a gimick that is stand-alone.

 

[Monk]

Somewhere here, a fellow cocooner had posted a couple of nice pictures of the Elk valve - I just spent 20 minutes trying to find it with no luck - Anyone know where it is?

 

[Digger]

Somewhere here, a fellow cocooner had posted a couple of nice pictures of the Elk valve - I just spent 20 minutes trying to find it with no luck - Anyone know where it is?

There are some here

Water Valve and other pics

 

[Monk]

Somewhere here, a fellow cocooner had posted a couple of nice pictures of the Elk valve - I just spent 20 minutes trying to find it with no luck - Anyone know where it is?

There are some here

Water Valve and other pics

Thanks Digger - that was the correct thread
here is the valve without plastic cover.
http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php...ost&p=74757

 

[Neurorad]

Just ordered the WSV, $306 shipped, Garrett's Electronics out of WA.

We'll see if it arrives within the estimated 5-7 days.

 

[Digger]

Just ordered the WSV, $306 shipped, Garrett's Electronics out of WA.

We'll see if it arrives within the estimated 5-7 days.

You do know all sales are final with them (they will do an exchange only within 10 days of your receipt so you should check it out right away although being an ELK Product it should be fine unless its an exchange or damaged in shipping). They are also not an authorized Elk Products Distributor so ELK does not have to honor the warranty.

 

[john.extremenetworks]

My suggestion on valves is to stay away from valves geared toward the automation enthusiast! It seems all the automation products are priced very high for the product specs and possibly quality.

If I was installing a valve, I would use "Zone Valve" type units. Often used in boiler systems for zoning certain heating areas. I've installed many of these devices and they work flawlessly. Most of the units I've used were either Honeywell or White Rogers. They're available for many different pipe sizes. The White Rogers is available up to 1 1/4" copper. Although most of the units are copper and require you to sweat them in, it would be well worth it. Anyone who can handle installing a home automation or security system can solder some copper! Also, these valves are available in many different voltage and wiring configurations.

Anyway, that would be my choice for such an application. BTW I would always include programming provisions to exercise your valves. I noted that others had mention issues of corrosion in the lines, and many valves may very rarely be used. When the time comes to save your house, the thing might not even work. Exercising the valve on a weekly basis should make a world of difference to the reliability of the system. And, if it's done in the wee hours it should cause a big issue!

 

[Digger]

My suggestion on valves is to stay away from valves geared toward the automation enthusiast! It seems all the automation products are priced very high for the product specs and possibly quality.

If I was installing a valve, I would use "Zone Valve" type units. Often used in boiler systems for zoning certain heating areas. I've installed many of these devices and they work flawlessly. Most of the units I've used were either Honeywell or White Rogers. They're available for many different pipe sizes. The White Rogers is available up to 1 1/4" copper. Although most of the units are copper and require you to sweat them in, it would be well worth it. Anyone who can handle installing a home automation or security system can solder some copper! Also, these valves are available in many different voltage and wiring configurations.

Anyway, that would be my choice for such an application. BTW I would always include programming provisions to exercise your valves. I noted that others had mention issues of corrosion in the lines, and many valves may very rarely be used. When the time comes to save your house, the thing might not even work. Exercising the valve on a weekly basis should make a world of difference to the reliability of the system. And, if it's done in the wee hours it should cause a big issue!

Arent zone valves normally closed and you energize them to turn them on (so you would have to energize them 24/7/365)? If so what is their life expectancy? Isnt that the opposite of what you want? Are they suitable for drinking water?

If all of the questions can be satisfied then yeah I guess you could use a boiler zone valve.

 

[royalj7]

I don't know about the specific valve Neurorad got, but most valves have an option when you order them to be normally closed or normally open. My thinking tells me for a water shutoff valve you would want it normally closed, so it fails shut. But I can see the other way too, I like being able to have running water while the power is out.

--Jamie