Which is the best?

midhun

New Member
Hi All,

I am new to Home Automation. But I would like to install and run an integrated system system. I am looking for a technology which has got lots of support and also devices of various kinds. I want to build an integrated system for large homes and I want it to be rock solid.

Reading through the "Insteon Compared" PDF by INSTEON, I was convinced that INSTEON is good technology to work on. But the forums here suggest that there have been problems with it (some problems with the springs) and also that it has got no motion sensors(or may be even other sensors). Worst of all there is no INSTEON compatible remote !!! Also we have a power supply of 50 Hz here and not 60 Hz (which INSTEON supports right now).

I am impressed with INSTEON but is z-wave or ZigBee the wave to go?? I need to make a huge investment. I am confused with so many reports and so much of user reviews. Also INSTEON products come cheaper than others (at least that is what I have found it to be or isn't it so?)So can you guys guide me in making the decision??
 
I think this has been discussed until everyone is blue. You say the house is large. How large? Are you saying high-end where price isn't an issue but reliability is most important? Is the house built yet? About how many switches? Zigbee is not an option because its not available yet. Insteon is not a professional solution for a new install. Both Z-Wave and UPB are good solutions for many people. If the house is not built yet, a wired solution might be best. Look into CentraLite. Very professional. There are a few other pro-solutions as well. If you have a large house, you don't want problems, but it will cost you, although that's expected in a large house.

I don't want to put you off, but if you have limited knowledge, but yet a large high-end house, I'd recommend you get a pro. It really will be cheaper in the long run. If you want to tinker and learn as you go, then you are taking the right steps by researching.
 
Hey,

Thx for the reply. I am looking at implementing integrated home automation solutions for already built homes. So I would definitely want to tinker with the technology. I have looked into some products of z-wave. But they seem to be costly compared to INSTEON. To start off and scale up to implement home automation solutions, which tech looks reliable and better? I like INSTEON because it supports X10 also. It has two paths to pass on the signals - Power line and wireless. So I can plug in INSTEON modules in existing homes.

But as said above, if INSTEON is not professional, can we at least expect it to become one? Or is z-wave the best?? Intel is part of the z-wave alliance. And Microsoft has tied up with Leviton to develop the required software. Also z-wave membership is very expensive too. Seeing this, is z-wave a better option to implement home automation in a large numbers??

Considering that ZigBee is an open standard, should I wait for the products of ZigBee to be out? I have ruled out UPB as it is only PLC and is expensive too.
 
Considering that ZigBee is an open standard, should I wait for the products of ZigBee to be out? I have ruled out UPB as it is only PLC and is expensive too.

You might be waiting awhile then. Zigbee has been "just around the corner" for a couple of years now. And open standard does not always mean interoperable. There are a few "zigbee" compliant system out (control4 comes to mind) and they are NOT interchangable.

I would also not automatically rule out UPB. It was designed and marketed for the professional integrator market and has been relatively successful. Service calls tend to hurt the profit margin, so systems that don't work get tossed real quickly. UPB for all accounts has been successful.

Limiting yourself to a single technology is probably not the greatest idea. There are time were one technology won't work but another will, and visa versa. I know of one person who retrofitted an older house with lots of stone, and RF technology (ZWave and RadioRA) didn't work worth a hoot. He ended up going with a PLC based system. Even if you decide to use one technology as your primary one, be familiar with the others.
 
"Limiting yourself to a single technology is probably not the greatest idea. There are time were one technology won't work but another will, and visa versa."

I would not limit myself to one technology but for the reason of integrating all the modules together. So if I have a security system working on ZigBee and a HVAC system working on z-wave and lighting system working on INSTEON, can I integrate all of them so that I could web enable them? As of now I have no idea about it. But if the existing software do provide such solutions, then it is great !!! ;) Does anybody have any clue about this?? Which softwares provide such a solution?
 
I am looking at implementing integrated home automation solutions for already built homes.
It sounds as if you want to do this professionally and not just for yourself? If thats the case I would spend about a week reading thru as many threads here as you can stand. Being a pro and doing this in customers homes is alot different then messing around in your own - especially larger, more expensive homes. Most people in larger homes with the money to support it usually opt for professional installed high end systems like Crestron, Elan, etc. These people are not putting in Zwave and Misterhome. In fact software on a pc is a very bad idea for a high end customers home if you want to stay in business more than a few months.

If you are gunning for the pro market, look into the high end systems, otherwise consider HAI or Elk as backbones for good systems. And please remove x10 from your vocabulary if you are doing any real automation these days. And as stated, I would not rule out UPB for these installs, its what many of your peers are putting in large, custom installs. The expense is nothing for high end clients that are not going hardwired.
 
Also, just as a FYI,

The 'dual mesh' part of INSTEON as stated is a little misleading. In the current state of things, INSTEON switches are 100% powerline control. The 'RF' part is in reference to a 'SignaLinc' type device that primarily is used to couple powerline legs (phases) via RF.

Sooo... If you have a switch on a noisy powerline you are pretty much hosed, the switch will not try to communicate via RF. In reality, most people have very good luck using INSTEON devices. In some cases a CFL or noisy low voltage transformer may cause a little grief. Fluorescents tend to do bad things to powerline command protocols. With only incandescent lights I had better than 99.9% reliability over a period of five months. As soon as I added some CFLs in my kitchen things got a little flaky, as in timers in my PLC would not work reliably.

I have about eight months with Z-Wave now and am happy. Z-Wave is more expensive but the products seem, to me, to be of a more professional quality.

My own opinion, others will vary. ;)

Ken
 
Ken – good to hear that you were at 99.9% reliability. Being at the level you are, you should know more than most that INSTEON technology is dual-mesh. I know I have posted this before but I think it helps to clarify:

INSTEON-enabled products have the ability to take advantage of one of 3:
1. powerline only
2. rf only
3. both – rf and powerline

That’s what makes INSTEON a dual-mesh network. Hope this helps.
 
@Steve

Ya, I am looking in to implement things professionally. I have seen websites of Clestron and Elan. They are professional and have really good systems. My idea was to integrate different modules and then provide a customized but complete solutions and then develop the modules grounds up. If those guys are not putting "Zwave and Misterhome", then how are they doing it? I do not intend to run the software on a PC. But would like to run it on a controller. I will certainly look into UPB now. I would like to build affordable but complete solutions.

Going by the replies till now, I feel I should rather go for independent modules rather than try to implement the whole system using a single technology. Is my inference correct? If that is so, can systems using different technologies be controlled by any single software??

@KenM

I didnt get you exactly. Are you saying that the RF mode in INSTEON is not being used as of now?? Is it that INSTEON is working on power line only?
 
@SmartLabsMike

Hey, you said :

"INSTEON-enabled products have the ability to take advantage of one of 3"

But what do the existing market products do?? Do they take advantage of both RF and powerline? Or does it take extra gadgetry to do the RF part?? I have an impression that INSTEON enabled devices transmit signals both on power line and RF simultaneously and ALWAYS. Is this correct?
 
midhun said:
I didnt get you exactly. Are you saying that the RF mode in INSTEON is not being used as of now?? Is it that INSTEON is working on power line only?
As Smartlabs Mike wrote, the technical specifications that make up the Insteon protocol allows devices to communicate via one or both RF and powerline signals. As of today, the only device available for sale to the public that transmits, receives and boosts both RF and powerline communications is the SignaLinc RF. Other devices are using powerline carrier signals, though that could change at any time.

Tom
 
fitzpatri8 said:
As of today, the only device available for sale to the public that transmits, receives and boosts both RF and powerline communications is the SignaLinc RF.
Hmm... Now I understand INSTEON better. Thanks fitzpatri8.

So what does this all boil into?? Which is a good technology for development ?? INSTEON?? z-wave ?? UPB ?? Can there be a distinct way out?? Or is the world still confused on what tech to standardize on?
 
SmartLabsMike said:
Ken – good to hear that you were at 99.9% reliability. Being at the level you are, you should know more than most that INSTEON technology is dual-mesh. I know I have posted this before but I think it helps to clarify:

INSTEON-enabled products have the ability to take advantage of one of 3:
1. powerline only
2. rf only
3. both – rf and powerline

That’s what makes INSTEON a dual-mesh network. Hope this helps.
As long as you include weasel words like "theoretically" or "ability" or "in the future", you are correct. Please list the shipping products (any brand is fine) that use option #2 or #3.

midhun, you are wrong, probably due to exaggerations by SH marketing. All current devices use option #1, other than the SignaLinc for bridging phases.
 
Going by the replies till now, I feel I should rather go for independent modules rather than try to implement the whole system using a single technology. Is my inference correct? If that is so, can systems using different technologies be controlled by any single software??
It depends on the software obviously. You need to choose carefully a product that supports all of the available technology you wish to use.
 
Sooo... If you have a switch on a noisy powerline you are pretty much hosed, the switch will not try to communicate via RF. In reality, most people have very good luck using INSTEON devices. In some cases a CFL or noisy low voltage transformer may cause a little grief. Fluorescents tend to do bad things to powerline command protocols. With only incandescent lights I had better than 99.9% reliability over a period of five months. As soon as I added some CFLs in my kitchen things got a little flaky, as in timers in my PLC would not work reliably

Unfortunate but true. If it wasnt for this I think my Insteon would have worked. I am 95% or so CFL in my house.
 
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