worries about window contacts

v1rtu0s1ty

Senior Member
Ok folks, this just came up now. We have many friends who also have young kids. Everytime we have parties, get together at my previous house, these kids including my kids gets wild. LOL!

I'm scared that once these surface mount window contacts are installed, the kids(during parties) might remove the sensors I have installed(not the one with the wire). They are easy to remove since it only uses adhesive. What are your thoughts on these guys?
 

rfdesq

Senior Member
Don't allow any kids in your home ;) . Or, write a special party rule that will monitor those windows and announce "magnet removed, get away".
 

Steve

Senior Member
lol. Imho there is a difference between wild and destructive. If kids came into my house and started ripping stuff off walls and/or windows, I would have the kids parent pay for the damage and that child would no longer be allowed in my house.

Otoh, if you tolerate such behavior your only choices are:

1. Use silicone to stick the sensors on - its a bit more solid than adhesive, but not much
2. Use hidden sensors somehow
3. Use the larger sensors with flanges that screw into the window frame

I'm sorry, I have kids too but I can't imagine a scenario even with wild partying where they would yank the window sensors - and don't be fooled, the reed switch part is held on the same way so they could yank those too and the wires can come out or tear drywall etc.
 

v1rtu0s1ty

Senior Member
Thanks guys! I think by that time we have a party, I already have curtuains installed. Or I can just go with GRI 505-W which is way smaller than the 110 I have right now. I remember you said that the 505 have wires in them as opposed to the screw type terminal which is easier to setup.

Thanks folks! ;)
 

Digger

Senior Member
Record an announcement............. "Step away from the angry ELK" and have it play whenever a trouble condition occurs ;)

We have nieces and nephews that are not as well behaved as our kids. But I have only had one problem in the past few years wth my alarm equipment.

I just clipped an outlet box on the outside of my house with the lawnmower handle so things happen to all of us.
 

v1rtu0s1ty

Senior Member
SUCCESS again!!! :(

Ok folks, I finally decided to install one window contact in my DEN room. It was a success however, I may need your tips on how I can make it look nicer. :p

If you recall, I prewired everything. I created a table which contains all the location of the end holes, where wires end.

Step 1 - drilled a hole

windowcontactstep1.jpg


Step 2 - Luckily, I saw the wire underneath the window sill. I used a 3/16" drill bit by hand so that it bites the outer sleeve of my 22/4. When it bit it, I was able to pull it giving me more space for my other homebrew puller, the 12 gauge solid wire. Hehehe. I pulled the cable using a naked 12 gauge solid wire with the end a bit bent.
windowcontactstep2.jpg


Step 3 - Installed the GRI 110 for testing
windowcontactstep3.jpg


Once I have decided on how to make it nicer, I will include a 2.2k ohms on one of the terminals!

Step 4 - Hooked it up to zone 2 and configured M1. Called my son and wife and demonstrated how it will get tripped. We heard the speaker alarm then I disarmed. I noticed though that I had 3 zone 2 violations in nextalarm. Here are the timestamps, all from zone 2.

Oct 08, 2006 03:40:20 PM
Oct 08, 2006 03:40:12 PM
Oct 08, 2006 03:40:07 PM

Is something wrong with my setup?
 

Steve

Senior Member
v1rtu0s1ty said:
Step 4 - Hooked it up to zone 2 and configured M1. Called my son and wife and demonstrated how it will get tripped. We heard the speaker alarm then I disarmed. I noticed though that I had 3 zone 2 violations in nextalarm. Here are the timestamps, all from zone 2.

Oct 08, 2006 03:40:20 PM
Oct 08, 2006 03:40:12 PM
Oct 08, 2006 03:40:07 PM

Is something wrong with my setup?
Probably just because it isn't fixed in place it tripped 3 times.

It looks like you alread notched the window for the magnet, but I thinking what I would have done is brought the wire up the side behind the trim and then put the magnet on the lower right corner without cutting the window. or, notch the sill so uyou have a notch that goes flush to the window. Strip the outer jacket back and just bring up the 2 conductors so it is flush against the window. Caulk the wires or paint them white.

However you do it, make sure the sensor and magnet have a good flat surface to stick to and you have as little wire exposed as possible.

...and then repair the window sill with wood filler, sand and paint.
 

BraveSirRobbin

Moderator
You are testing those connections with a meter before you hook them up to the Elk-M1 correct?

If not, you really should read THIS How-To. One notice is I didn't install EOL resistors in my contacts, so instead of reading near zero ohms, you would be reading your EOL resistor value.

Get the cabling and hardware working perfectly first BEFORE you install anything on the panel. Will save you a lot of time (err in your case posts :( ) when trying to trouble shoot the system.
 

v1rtu0s1ty

Senior Member
BraveSirRobbin said:
You are testing those connections with a meter before you hook them up to the Elk-M1 correct?

No, I didn't. Are you asking this so I can verify if wires are not damaged?

If not, you really should read THIS How-To. One notice is I didn't install EOL resistors in my contacts, so instead of reading near zero ohms, you would be reading your EOL resistor value.

Once I have the EOLR installed, I will change the definition to Supervise on Close.

Get the cabling and hardware working perfectly first BEFORE you install anything on the panel. Will save you a lot of time (err in your case posts :( ) when trying to trouble shoot the system.

Yep, I'm actually doing it one by one just to get my hands dirty. I know, it's going to be a pain once I mount everything to a larger can.

Thanks for the advice!
 

v1rtu0s1ty

Senior Member
Steve said:
Probably just because it isn't fixed in place it tripped 3 times.

It looks like you alread notched the window for the magnet
No, I didn't cut the window. It was built like that. I haven't remove the adhesive yet because I'm still thinking of replacing it with 505. However, this 110 is nice. I placed the switch behind the trim(where the rail is) and placed the magnet in the front trim, inside room. Found out that it was still able to detect it. Is it ok if the switch gets wet by rain since it is behind the trim?

I'm worried that the 2 conductors can get destroyed everytime I close the window den. I noticed that there is a very small clearance for the 2 conductors. However, I also don't know if I'm actually following your idea. :(

, but I thinking what I would have done is brought the wire up the side behind the trim and then put the magnet on the lower right corner without cutting the window. or, notch the sill so uyou have a notch that goes flush to the window. Strip the outer jacket back and just bring up the 2 conductors so it is flush against the window. Caulk the wires or paint them white.

Very cool idea!

However you do it, make sure the sensor and magnet have a good flat surface to stick to and you have as little wire exposed as possible.

...and then repair the window sill with wood filler, sand and paint.

BADABING! Thanks!
 

BraveSirRobbin

Moderator
V1rtu0s1ty:

OK, back away from the automation system. Just drop the screwdriver to the floor, back sloooowly away from the system, and take three deep breaths.

Honestly, I'm not trying to be difficult, but in my mind I see you typing with one hand while wiring with the other :( . I get like that to sometimes, especially when I have waaaay to much caffeine! :p

OK, now that you are calm let me explain. Understand that a lot of this is MY opinion and there are many, many ways of doing things.

I like to insure that the cabling integrity run all over the house is OK. This means no opens as well as shorts. It only takes a few seconds per cable, but let me tell you, cabling problems are a nightmare to troubleshoot. Now I don't mean you test every cat5e pair (there are testers for that), but I DO mean to test all four and two conductor cabling going to your security system components. (This is actually explained very well in that Security System How-To).

This also has a two fold benefit as you can label the cables while doing these tests.

Once you have the cabling in place, I like to hook up the sensor, and then put the meter on the end that would go into the Elk, and make sure that the sensor is working properly. This way you know it was mounted properly and that it works as planned.

THEN go ahead and connect the wiring to the Elk zones. Well, even before I do that I actually will test my programming methodology with a pair of jumper wires.

This means that you will "simulate" the component with a jumper wire by clipping it on, then off and make sure your programming works the way you want it to (i.e. is it a normally closed or open or EOL?, etc...).

Now you will have a very good chance of success once the system is all together. I actually have a 12 volt DC supply that I power my glass breaks and motion detectors to so I don't even have to use any security components to test them with before hooking them up (hook up the 12 volts, then look at the contact closure portion with a meter while testing).

Good luck and by all means don’t' take this as not being able to post whenever you want (luckily we have no "post quota" here). I just like to go with the philosophy of if you TEACH a man to fish; you feed him for life (or something like that)!

Regards,

BSR
 

v1rtu0s1ty

Senior Member
Found a better solution and I wire will not be really seen. However, to overcome this, I would have to put the magnet at the bottom part of the window that moves up and down. Is the magnet fine if it gets soaked in rain?

For the track, I found out that it's impossible because my window uses steel rope wire and there is a fat color gray that holds it. I think it's like a pulley style.
 
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