Yet another cellular monitoring thread (HAI OP2, AlarmRelay, CDMA)

js19707

Active Member
OK folks, I've seen (and been following) the many threads covering cellular communicators spawned in the wake of the 2G sunset.  I am finally ready to pull the trigger, but am having some trouble deciding which way to go.  I've searched extensively here (and elsewhere) without finding the answers I need, so apologies for creating yet another thread on this topic.
 
Here are the details:
1.  My CS is AlarmRelay.
2.  My panel is an HAI OmniPro 2.
3.  I have VOIP (Comcast Business Class voice) and no POTS.
4.  I previously tried using an HAI C3 but it didn't work reliably for me, due to (AT&T) reception issues; 2G sunset makes the C3 irrelevant, but I believe I would have AT&T reception issues even with 3G or 4G.
5.  I'm looking for a Verizon CDMA solution, for which reception should be somewhat better.
6.  I'm not willing to consider the IPDatatel solutions, given all the issues people here have reported in the past.
7.  UL Listing seems (to me) worth having.
8.  I would like to set up supervisory zones on my panel to know when the cellular unit is reporting troubles.
9.  Being cellular only, I would like to know right away if the communication path is not working.
10.  I'm DIY (I have no dealer).
 
My choices are:
1.  Telguard TG-1 Express CDMA or TG-4 CDMA
2.  Uplink CDMA30 or CDMA50
3.  Napco makes the SLE-CDMA, which is claimed to be both UL-listed and capable of reporting to "any central station".
 
I spoke to AlarmRelay, who tell me that their monthly charge for monitoring via either the Telguard or Uplink solutions is the same (~$26/month), plus $60 one-time charge for setup.  They also told me that the Napco solution is not supported (there are different Napco units on their supported list, for Napco panels, but these appear to be only older units, not these Starlink3 units).
 
Here are my questions:
 
TELGUARD / UPLINK questions:
 
1.  Telguard vs. Uplink: For the same monthly fee, is there a reason to prefer one over the other, when used in conjunction with AlarmRelay and my HAI OP2?
 
2.  Cellular only vs cellular primary: I feel like it's more "future proof" to buy the more expensive unit that supports cellular+POTS, even if i'm not using it now.  But once AlarmRelay configures the device (I am assuming they would be the "dealer" from the perspective of Telguard or Uplink), would I be "locked in" to using only them?  If so, perhaps I should just view this device as a consumable item.
 
3.  Will the only reliable indication of communication trouble be the trouble signal generated on my panel?  IOW, when can I expect the Central Station to know / notify me they have lost 'heartbeat' with the cellular unit?  AFAICT, AlarmRelay only offers monthly timer test.  I do see references in the data sheets for these units to something like "Remote Query" capability, but I am assuming this is something that has to be configured with Telguard or Uplink directly (via a dealer).  Is there any reasonable way for me to get more reliable (external) notifications of communication trouble?
 
NAPCO questions:
 
1.  I assume when Napco say it works with "any Central Station", they mean that they do DTMF retransmission to your Central Station.  So, would the Napco solution work with AR (despite what they say)?
 
2.  Does anyone have experience using a Starlink unit with an HAI OP2?  With AlarmRelay?
 
3.  As far as I can tell, I would need someone with a Napco dealer account to properly configure the Starlink unit's settings with the Napco NOC.  If AlarmRelay will not activate this unit, would I need to find a dealer out there to help me with this setup?  Is there anyone out there who could help?
 
ALARMRELAY questions:
 
1.  I have used AlarmRelay for years and, while I haven't had any serious troubles with them, the people I interact with do seem to have been inconsistently trained.  Is there another DIY-friendly/tolerant CS out there that people prefer to AlarmRelay these days?
 
Thanks for any input or advice you can provide
--js
 
 
 
 
1. You need to consider the CS and whether or not they are a Telular sub-dealer or not and how the signals get ported to them. Uplink can be transparent to any CS where Telular can only be sent to a sub-dealer (locked in to fewer CS).
 
2. Doesn't make a difference because you can't run a backup on VOIP....a very bad idea to even attempt.
 
3. Depends on the CS and whether or not they notify you and what their SOP on loss of signal from the vendor is.
 
1A. Dialer capture. How they report on the back end I can't say, but it most likely is similar to Uplink, either direct port or dialer emulation from the 3rd party.
 
2A. Should be transparent no matter the host panel if you're sending standard CID format. Usually they have a list of every signal possible that can be sent, so "custom" RC's are typically out.
 
3A. That's the truth. Can't comment as far as Napco services go. I haven't used them for years since I had bad experiences with a product line(video gateways)
 
1B. Can't comment, I deal wholesale with CS'
 
DEL, as usual, you provide great information!  Thank you.
 
I've decided to go w/ the TG-1 Express CDMA w/ AlarmRelay.  In addition to the standard cellular monitoring, they will support the "Remote Query capability" and notify on loss of heartbeat for an extra ~$2/mo.
 
They will also support the HomeControl Flex interactive feature, but I'm on my own as far as hooking it up.
 
The standard wiring for the TG1 Express is pretty straightforward and I thought the interactive wiring was just adding a few more connections.  But I looked more closely at the Telguard manual's wiring diagram this morning and now I'm realizing there are a couple of things I am not sure about.
 
1.  I was planning to hook up the supervisory contact from the TG1X to the HAI, but noticed that the STC connection appears to be repurposed to connect to the keyswitch zone when using the Interactive feature.  Does that mean there is no direct supervision by the panel if I am using the Telguard Interactive feature?  Would I see any notification (e.g. PHONE LINE DEAD TRBL NOW?) on the panel if there is a problem (e.g. LPF, NSC, RFC, DTF)?
 
2.  I believe the wiring to the HAI panel should be as follows, but would like to get confirmation (see attached diagram).  I believe the correct zone types are: Keyswitch input zone, and Armed output zone.
 
Has anyone gotten the interactive features working with the HAI OP2?  Any gotchas?
 
 
 
 

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js19707 said:
1.  I was planning to hook up the supervisory contact from the TG1X to the HAI, but noticed that the STC c1onnection appears to be repurposed to connect to the keyswitch zone when using the Interactive feature.  Does that mean there is no direct supervision by the panel if I am using the Telguard Interactive feature?  Would I see any notification (e.g. PHONE LINE DEAD TRBL NOW?) on the panel if there is a problem (e.g. LPF, NSC, RFC, DTF)?
 
That is exactly what happened to my when I tried to hook up the TG-1 Express to my Elk M1 to use the Telguard Home Control Flex features.  
 
Telguard confirmed to my monitoring station and me that you loose the supervisory STC ability when you use the keyswitch/zone connection for interactive features.  So I abandoned the Flex capabilities so I could have supervision on the Elk, and I use CQC or eKeypad Pro to get the same Flex-type functions.
 
Based on the wiring diagrams for the Elk and the OmniPro, I doubt you will get a different result--though there may be some way on the OmniPro to use relays to get around the problem I had on the Elk.
 
It's the nature of the beast with interactive on limited, cell only communicators. They generally only have a single relay on them (some do vary) but that is how they trip the panel to arm/disarm (via a keyswitch input) since there's no direct interactive connection. The only workaround for most is to get a unit that connects to the data bus (not possible on HAI) and go that route.
 
The interactive works off the O/C reporting the panel puts out so that's how real status is communicated (assuming O/C is not passthru on your account with the cell vendor). Cell receives signal to arm, trips the keyswitch zone and the O/C report provides the armed/disarmed notification.
 
No workaround unless you have multiple outputs from the cell communicator.
 
Thanks again DEL!  I still don't understand, given the TG1 uses the Open/Close reporting to determine the panel state, why the TRIP IN connection (HAI ARMED output type) is required.
 
Regardless, two other questions I'm hoping you or someone else here can answer.  I've seen in other posts related to the TG-1's interactive wiring that one needs a relay to reverse the polarity of the trigger, but I haven't seen a clear explanation of how it should be wired.
 
1) Can someone confirm that a relay like the Elk 924 is required for the HAI OP2 when connecting to the TG-1 for interactive service?
 
2) Judging from the ELK diagram, it looks like I would connect the Elk 924 relay as follows:
  • HAI AUX 12V to ELK POS
  • HAI AUX GND to ELK NEG
  • HAI ARMED ZONE to ELK +T
  • ELK N/O to TG1 TRIP IN
Can someone confirm this wiring is correct?
 
thanks!
--js
 
Can't really say, but best guess would be since the unit is dialer capture and it ignores the bulk of the data the panel generates per signal sent (mainly account number) that the TG stores the user code portion of the O/C report in a buffer and appends it to what is sent to them that is triggered via the trip trigger input. You'd have to look at how a CID code is sent to a CS to really understand all that goes into it.
 
Part of the beauty of dialer capture units is they ignore whatever the panel dials (emulated dial tone) and sends (emulate CS receiver) so dealers can perform takeovers without touching panel programming, especially if they're locked out.
 
An updated wiring diagram is included here.
 
two questions:
 
 
1.  Does the proposed wiring of the ELK924 relay to the HAI's ARMED output look correct?
2.  Should the EOL resistor for the HAI's keyswitch input be wired parallel to or in series with the TG-1, i.e. is it OK as shown?  Like EOL resistors in general, I'm assuming it would be better to have the EOL resistor on the TG-1 end of the loop, as opposed to how I've shown it here; is that right?
 
thanks again!
 
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:1076]
 
 
Hi DEL, hmm, I'm not sure why you're unable to view the image of the wiring diagram.  It seems to work for me, even in Chrome's incognito mode, but perhaps I didn't post it correctly.  I just sent you a PM with a Google Drive link, I hope that works.
 
js19707 said:
I've decided to go w/ the TG-1 Express CDMA w/ AlarmRelay.  In addition to the standard cellular monitoring, they will support the "Remote Query capability" and notify on loss of heartbeat for an extra ~$2/mo.
 
I'm curious, did they say what that supervision level would be for that extra $2/month?
 
DELInstallations said:
It's the nature of the beast with interactive on limited, cell only communicators. They generally only have a single relay on them (some do vary) but that is how they trip the panel to arm/disarm (via a keyswitch input) since there's no direct interactive connection. The only workaround for most is to get a unit that connects to the data bus (not possible on HAI) and go that route.
 
...No workaround unless you have multiple outputs from the cell communicator.
 
I'm also curious.  
 
Assuming you get the key switch working as described in your post number 8 above (and, in that connection, posts 16 and 24-29 in this thread deal with using a TG-1 with the Omni and might help you), aren't you going to lose the STC capabilities of the TG-1?  That is what I understood DEL to mean in the quote above since there is only one relay in the TG-1, and if it is used for key switching, it becomes (as was my personal experience) disabled for STC functionality.  
 
And IF that is, in fact, the case, can you even get Remote Query capabilities since as I read the TG-1 manual "It is useful in resolving STC events that are reported by the alarm panel to the central station"?
 
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I want to make sure I am not missing something in my own TG-1/Elk M1 install.
 
Thanks.
 
I've installed more of the original TG1's and not since the redesign to the smaller unit.
 
There's only a single STC relay on the TG1E, so that's what's driving the keyswitch functionality. No options to externally trip the panel on fault.
 
I won't know how well it works until I've got it all up and running, but I was given a choice of supervision levels, with the most frequent being every 30 secs.
 
SterlingDonnelly said:
I'm curious, did they say what that supervision level would be for that extra $2/month?
 
Hi TurboSam
I won't be able to give you a definitive answer until I test it all out but my interpretation of what the manual says is that one could use Remote Query to help troubleshoot / isolate the fault for an supervisory condition, not that there is a specific operational dependency on having an STC relay hooked up to a panel zone for supervision purposes.  Hoping to have a few free mins to wire it up this weekend, and I will report back once I knowl
 
 
TurboSam said:
I'm also curious.  
 
Assuming you get the key switch working as described in your post number 8 above (and, in that connection, posts 16 and 24-29 in this thread deal with using a TG-1 with the Omni and might help you), aren't you going to lose the STC capabilities of the TG-1?  That is what I understood DEL to mean in the quote above since there is only one relay in the TG-1, and if it is used for key switching, it becomes (as was my personal experience) disabled for STC functionality.  
 
And IF that is, in fact, the case, can you even get Remote Query capabilities since as I read the TG-1 manual "It is useful in resolving STC events that are reported by the alarm panel to the central station"?
 
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I want to make sure I am not missing something in my own TG-1/Elk M1 install.
 
Thanks.
 
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