Your thoughts: Elk M1 or HAI Omni Pro II
- Thread starter dbinaz
- Start date
I did the research also like you and went with the Elk because if had more options and better support and better price. It has worked perfectly and with ease.
I am also using Insteon with it and have about 70 switches of different types including KeypadLincs. The Insteon setup, linked and operated perfectly, not a single failure! Many of them are controlled by motion detectors through the Elk and many are automated for various things using the Elk.
I used PowerHome to set up the Insteon and found it very easy and easy to use after practicing with it for a short while. It was easy to transfer over all the switch information to the Elk with PowerHome and changes that I want to make in links or automation with PowerHome and Elk are easy.
I am very new to this but with a 70 switch Insteon setup, I dove into it full steam and am very pleased with Insteon. They operate FAST and RELIABLY! The quality of the switches are excellent and the light bars add a special touch. I modified the light bars from the all white to make them easier to determine the state. They are set for blue for off and low dim and whiter for full on or full bright. The all white makes them easy to see in a lit room so you know which switch is on and the blue adds a nice low glow in a dark room so you can find the switch. (Again, easy to do)
I got to add my thanks to Dave Howard of PowerHome who helped me get over some rough spots when I was starting out. His PowerHome forum is excellent with fast response that are on the mark!
Needing only the Insteon switches, which are acceptable in cost and the Elk for the lighting control and alarm , the cost of a whole house automation is quit reasonable.
I also have cameras installed along with whole house audio but that is outside of the the setup I think you are looking for.
I am also using Insteon with it and have about 70 switches of different types including KeypadLincs. The Insteon setup, linked and operated perfectly, not a single failure! Many of them are controlled by motion detectors through the Elk and many are automated for various things using the Elk.
I used PowerHome to set up the Insteon and found it very easy and easy to use after practicing with it for a short while. It was easy to transfer over all the switch information to the Elk with PowerHome and changes that I want to make in links or automation with PowerHome and Elk are easy.
I am very new to this but with a 70 switch Insteon setup, I dove into it full steam and am very pleased with Insteon. They operate FAST and RELIABLY! The quality of the switches are excellent and the light bars add a special touch. I modified the light bars from the all white to make them easier to determine the state. They are set for blue for off and low dim and whiter for full on or full bright. The all white makes them easy to see in a lit room so you know which switch is on and the blue adds a nice low glow in a dark room so you can find the switch. (Again, easy to do)
I got to add my thanks to Dave Howard of PowerHome who helped me get over some rough spots when I was starting out. His PowerHome forum is excellent with fast response that are on the mark!
Needing only the Insteon switches, which are acceptable in cost and the Elk for the lighting control and alarm , the cost of a whole house automation is quit reasonable.
I also have cameras installed along with whole house audio but that is outside of the the setup I think you are looking for.
upstatemike
Senior Member
I was thinking of doing something similiar with my light bars... blue for off, green (which actually looks tuquoise) for medium, and Bright white for full on. Did you cut the light bars with something? I was worried if I tried it that they might just shatter on me.jimspobox said:
Also interested in knowing what cameras you went with for the Elk. I will be doing cameras in the Spring and am planning on Panasonic IP units at this point but am still looking at other options.
HoustonFirefox
Active Member
Get an Elk and don't look back. I have no experience with HAI but can honestly say that my Elk M1 Gold performs its duties 100% of the time, every time. It is cost effective and the support on these forums from the likes of Spanky and others is above and beyond. Elk seems to be able to listen to issues customers are having and come out with a firmware update almost instantly; try that with another company!
My hats off to Elk for making such a fine product and not "forgetting" previous customers. Hopefully they will continue doing a great job because so many customers are as loyal to them as they are to us.
My hats off to Elk for making such a fine product and not "forgetting" previous customers. Hopefully they will continue doing a great job because so many customers are as loyal to them as they are to us.
I have to wholeheartedly agree that ELK seems to be the ONLY manufacturer of alarm equipment that supports teh DIY so well. And like you said if they implement a new firmware feature they release it to all customers for free. There are plenty of less expensive panels out there but in the end they may be much more expensive if you have to upgrade them all of the time.
Its also a FUN panel to play with since you can always find something new to do with it.
You can cut the light bars very easily and they will not shatter. I tried various items and what works best is a long pair of "sharp" scissors. The light bars have taps on the side that make them fit in the switches straight up and the tabs have to be maintained on each section of the light bar to be inserted back in properly. Also make sure the cut is "square" or one bar will interfere with the other when inserting, but it can be easily trimmed.
I doubt if there is enough bar material to have three colors and still maintain the alignment tabs on the side. I cut mine in about half in between two of the alignment tabs and it works fine. Use care when putting the switch plate back on and make sure it seats FLAT against the base and the paddle operates smoothly. Test it before installing the screws.
The blue shows for off and low dim and then begins to change to all white as you go to full brightness. The wife now loves them and can makes it easy to tell which is on or off, day or night.
I have tried a couple of different cameras and it basically boils down to quality of picture for me. Some, even the moderate priced ones are fuzzy on the picture which to me makes them NOT ACCEPTABLE. I have been VERY happy with the Accudome line of camera. The one below is a PTZ with Camcorder quality picture, auto focus and auto zoom. The best I have found at any price!
http://www.mjelectronics.com/pages/new/ptzdomecamera.html
Here is more info on it but this dealer has a higher price:
http://www.cuttingedgesecurity.com/proddet...od=IS%2DACD1500
Accudome makes other smaller and less expensive cameras. This one is fairly large. Look for a 1/3” Sony Super-HAD CCD lens. auto focus if possible, high resolution.
upstatemike
Senior Member
Thanks for the camera link. The camera you suggest looks like it is better than the panasonic for about the same price. Of course to be fair the Panasonic includes the web server and this camera needs the addition of a Bluenet server for $225 but I can see some advantages to this approach that could make it worth the extra cost.
Obvious question: How are you using it with your Elk M1? Does the TS07 touch screen work with the Bluenet video server control layout so you can use the PTZ buttons?
Also not clear on cabling.... Camera needs 24VAC power + BNC video connection that runs to Video In on the Bluenet unit. Is there also a PTZ control cable that has to run from the camera to the Bluenet box so the Bluenet web interface can control PTZ on the camera? Is that a multi-conductor cable or what?
On the light bars: I was not going to cut them into more than two pieces. I am thinking Blue for the single OFF light pipe and then split the long pipe between Green (which looks blue-green) and White. I'm going to give it a try and see how it looks.
Obvious question: How are you using it with your Elk M1? Does the TS07 touch screen work with the Bluenet video server control layout so you can use the PTZ buttons?
Also not clear on cabling.... Camera needs 24VAC power + BNC video connection that runs to Video In on the Bluenet unit. Is there also a PTZ control cable that has to run from the camera to the Bluenet box so the Bluenet web interface can control PTZ on the camera? Is that a multi-conductor cable or what?
On the light bars: I was not going to cut them into more than two pieces. I am thinking Blue for the single OFF light pipe and then split the long pipe between Green (which looks blue-green) and White. I'm going to give it a try and see how it looks.
Edenlights
Member
While I have no Elk knowledge, Has anyone that's done a Omni & HA HLC install tell me how the Elk and insteon compare? I have done several Omni & HLC installs and I can't imagine the Elk and Insteon being able to compare from a intergration stand point?? Thanks for any comments??
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Steve: The Omni is great, nothing wrong with it but you asked about price, so consider the whole picture.
After I posted, I too thought about the free upgrades. I also did more reading as to which software is free with HAL and what is dealer only. That had me reassured as well. I too have seen Spanky's quick replies. I like that.
acheslow - as a fellow DIYer, what are you using in conjunction with your Elk for IR distro?
jimspobox, 70 siwtches you say? Glad it all works for you. TBH, if I saw more positive results like that with Insteon I'd surely feel more comfortable investigating it. But sadly, I see the horror stories too. jimspobox, the whole house audio and cameras are really part of my roadmap. Do you have an URL outlining your current system?
All said, I'll be picking up that ELK soon enough.
Steve: The Omni is great, nothing wrong with it but you asked about price, so consider the whole picture.
After I posted, I too thought about the free upgrades. I also did more reading as to which software is free with HAL and what is dealer only. That had me reassured as well. I too have seen Spanky's quick replies. I like that.
acheslow - as a fellow DIYer, what are you using in conjunction with your Elk for IR distro?
jimspobox, 70 siwtches you say? Glad it all works for you. TBH, if I saw more positive results like that with Insteon I'd surely feel more comfortable investigating it. But sadly, I see the horror stories too. jimspobox, the whole house audio and cameras are really part of my roadmap. Do you have an URL outlining your current system?
All said, I'll be picking up that ELK soon enough.
mtwalsh367
Member
I wanted to add a few quick comments regarding my Elk and Insteon experience. I have not used the Omni so I can't comment on how that compares.
I agree with others that the Elk is rock solid and very user friendly. The only weak area for me has been with Insteon and ultimately I have moved my lighting control over to HomeSeer because I was limited in what I could accomplish on my M1. Now before I explain further let me say that Elk was very quick to add Insteon to the M1 and have been improving it ever since so I am in no way implying that I am not happy with my M1. For me I needed a bit more flexibity in my lighting control and also I am at 80% full with my rules memory so shifting my lighting to another platrofm has helped to free up some rule space as well.
There were 3 main challenges for me with the M1 and Insteon.
1) Since the M1 is not sofware based and does not use the Insteon device manager you don't get the built in verification and retry logic for lighting commands. This means that you can't fire off a sequence of lighting commands within a rule and expect 100% reliability. If you want good reliablity with issuing multiple lighting commands you have to build in about a 2 second delay between commands or some of them will likely get dropped. To work around this you can set everything up as groups but likewise you can't fire off multiple groups at the same time or you will kill your reliability. To me this isn't something that the user should have to worry about managing.
2) The M1 can't trigger rules off of seeing/receiving group Insteon commands. This means you can't use your keypadlincs or controllincs to control your M1. This was my biggest issue because I have events that I want to trigger from my keypadlincs and contolincs and was limited to using the function keys on my M1 pad for these.
3) The M1 does not track light status when insteon groups/scenes are initiated locally at the switch or via the keypadlinc or controllinc. Unless you turn on automatic status polling on the M1 (which just generates more Insteon traffic) you won't be able to rely on knowing the status of all of your devices.
Now, I don't know if the Omni does any better at these things and I do realze that a software based package inherently can be more tightly integrated with Insteon so its not really fair to compare what the M1 can do with a software based automation package.
Hope that this information is helpful.
Matt
I agree with others that the Elk is rock solid and very user friendly. The only weak area for me has been with Insteon and ultimately I have moved my lighting control over to HomeSeer because I was limited in what I could accomplish on my M1. Now before I explain further let me say that Elk was very quick to add Insteon to the M1 and have been improving it ever since so I am in no way implying that I am not happy with my M1. For me I needed a bit more flexibity in my lighting control and also I am at 80% full with my rules memory so shifting my lighting to another platrofm has helped to free up some rule space as well.
There were 3 main challenges for me with the M1 and Insteon.
1) Since the M1 is not sofware based and does not use the Insteon device manager you don't get the built in verification and retry logic for lighting commands. This means that you can't fire off a sequence of lighting commands within a rule and expect 100% reliability. If you want good reliablity with issuing multiple lighting commands you have to build in about a 2 second delay between commands or some of them will likely get dropped. To work around this you can set everything up as groups but likewise you can't fire off multiple groups at the same time or you will kill your reliability. To me this isn't something that the user should have to worry about managing.
2) The M1 can't trigger rules off of seeing/receiving group Insteon commands. This means you can't use your keypadlincs or controllincs to control your M1. This was my biggest issue because I have events that I want to trigger from my keypadlincs and contolincs and was limited to using the function keys on my M1 pad for these.
3) The M1 does not track light status when insteon groups/scenes are initiated locally at the switch or via the keypadlinc or controllinc. Unless you turn on automatic status polling on the M1 (which just generates more Insteon traffic) you won't be able to rely on knowing the status of all of your devices.
Now, I don't know if the Omni does any better at these things and I do realze that a software based package inherently can be more tightly integrated with Insteon so its not really fair to compare what the M1 can do with a software based automation package.
Hope that this information is helpful.
Matt
AutomatedOutlet
Senior Member
The HAI panel does not support Insteon at all right now.
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