Another help-a-newbie post :)

Hi all,
 
I've been reading like mad about HA, and I've learned a ton.  I'm getting a bit down to the wire, so I thought I'd just post and see if I can get some help sorting things out.
 
I know every recommends starting slowly, but we're essentially building a new house, so I'd love to be able to buy HA hardware now rather than buy non-HA hardware and then replace it all over the next however long.
 
A bit about us and what we're looking for:
 
- Would love to be able to control lights, front door, thermostat (is this is the same as HVAC?), speakers, and a recirculation pump (is that possible?), doorbell, ceiling fans, and skylights (Velux brand, solar).  Maybe a security system.  Could see us expanding this over time to other stuff.
- We are definitely on a budget, so value is very important to us.
- We are PC folks and have Windows 8 phones.
 
I gave our contractor the pre-wire 103 list.  He's not very familiar with HA, but is willing to learn (if there are any good links for me to share with him, please send those, too!).
 
So, after doing some reading, I thought we'd go with mControl, but no one on here seems to really recommend that.  And then I see there's software and hardware controllers.
 
I'm thinking now, I just need to figure out what outlets, switches, recirculation pump, doorbell, front door lock, and thermostat to buy and then do the trials that folks recommended doing to see what software I like.  How do I test different hardware controllers? 
 
And is there a best-of list for the actual HA components (like outlets?).  Maybe a budget best-of list?
 
Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!
 
Thanks!!

Welcome! You've got a tall order there. Wire up for everything like you are doing as that will save you money and effort later. Make sure they zig-zag wire so it is easy to find and there is extra length available. Also, run conduit for future wiring needs. And take plenty of pictures so you can find everything later.

Regarding your wish list, much of that is budget busting if you were to go with a system that does it all so if you want to stick to a budget, you will likely need to mix and match devices from different companies and likely different technologies (wired, UPB, Zwave). Everything there is possible but you will need to research a solution.

I feel like the Lutron RadioRa 2 guy because that is what I often recommend and chose for myself. I chose it because it had elegant light controls, temp control, motion sensors, light sensors, motorized shades, etc and is one of the most reliable technologies. However, it is more expensive than other DIY technologies and is more of a dealer oriented product than for the DIYer. However, a system like RadioRa 2 is likely the only technology that would get you most of the way there. However it doesn't have lock control and you'd definitely need a security or HA software/hardware package to really automate the system. RadioRa 2 has some home automation capabilities built-in but they aren't very fancy or flexible. Also, light status is instantaneous, which is definitely not the case for many DIY lighting technologies.

Now if you want something cheaper than RadioRa, I don't know of any single technology or company that would cover everything you're looking for. Insteon and SmartHome.com have the most options of the DIY technologies but there is a thread now discussing the reliability of Insteon now as it has had problems in the past. UPB is likely the most reliable for lighting but you might have a hard time finding a fan control, however if you are one to just set the ceiling fan speed and leave it then a regular, non-dimming switch should work. Zwave for lighting will probably work to a point but if you plan to have more than 50 or 60 switches, I've read that it becomes chatty and not as reliable. Zigbee is similar to Zwave but doesn't have as many light switch choices. Some use one technology for lighting for reliability and another technology for temp control and locks but make sure you have enough of each technology as many are mesh (repeating) networks. There are 240 volt relays that plug in to a 120 volt outlet that you can use to switch something like a pump, so then you'd just need to get a 120 volt outlet (check wattage) and that would take care of the pump. You'd likely want the shades wired so run the appropriate wires. Those could be controlled from a security system or HA controller. Same for the doorbell, depending on what you are thinking of.

If you want to find out more about RadioRa 2 or the other lighting options, look for some of my RadioRa 2 posts where I compared UPB, Zwave, Zigbee, etc. so I don't have to rehash my PERSONAL thoughts.

Really, you are going to have to post more info on your budget and what you want to do in your home and where you'd like to start. A budget in this space usually means starting small and expanding from there. It also means spending the time to figure out what will work best for your situation. I know you mentioned that in your post but there are no shortcuts unless you want to pay for it. I just got into HA and security within the past 6 months and it took me a while to figure out what I wanted. Now I'm taking baby steps to get there.

P.S. I also have a Windows 8 Phone. Good luck finding any HA solution for it. . Nope, not Windows RT either, at least not that I've heard or seen.

David

If you are still in the prewire stage I recommend looking at Centralite for lighting control.

Thanks, dgage and IndyBrian.
 
Our budget is less than $5k for costs in addition to what we'd normally spend on, say, light switches.  ANd we're OK not having everything NOW, but just don't want to end up replacing stuff we just installed if we don't have to.  Does that make sense?  I'm just not sure what's the best way to go about that. 
 
I don't mind have different technologies, as long as I can tie them together somehow in a single software package that will control them all.  That's what things like HomeSeer and mControl do, right?
 
Have you seen this for Windows Phone?  http://www.windowsphone.com/s?appid=9db87141-340b-4826-b841-660aa97e208d
 
Also, what about mControl?
 
IndyBrian -- why do you recommend Centralite?  Going to their website, there isn't an authorized dealer near me :|

Centralite Elegance is one of the less expensive hard wired systems, which is probably why it was recommended. Realize that your house will need to be wired differently than standard and frankly, just the extra wiring and labor could eat all or most of your $5000 budget. Realize that is before you buy the relays and special switches so I don't think you have the budget to do that in your house. I would spend most of your money on the wiring (wiring checklist you mentioned) and making sure you have everything you'll think you'll need.

I didn't realize and I don't think you realize just how EXPENSIVE home automation can be. For everything you are looking at doing, you could easily spend 5 or more times your current budget. For example, I looked into some of the Lutron shades and while I didn't get an actual quote, I wouldn't be surprised if it were $1500 for two shades in my kitchen and that may be on the low side. Doorbell? If you want a plain one it is cheap and you can wire just about any into a security system but if you want a fancy one with camera it could easily be $500-$1000. I'm not trying to discourage you but get you to focus.

So I think you need to focus on the most important parts that are difficult or expensive to upgrade later. Wiring (and conduit) is the most important as we've already covered. So what else is important? I'd say security over lighting so expect to spend a couple grand there if you want it done right and not done by someone that wants to install the equipment In exchange for a nice monthly fee. So with the $2500 left, is some lighting automation more important or is whole home audio more important? For HVAC you can get a nice Radio Thermostat CT-30 or Filtrete 3M-50 thermostat for around a $100 and they are wifi with free remote access. However, if you get fancy with multi-stage equipment with humidity this or that, you may need a fancier one. .

And I hadn't seen that app but the ISY is primarily used with the Elk security system and they make a potent combo but I decided to go with HAI although I'm not ready to purchase and install the security system yet. Realize also that you will be so busy with the home build that you won't have time to play with any of this so there will likely be many more apps available by the time you are ready to really get your hands dirty with home automation.

David

dgage did a great write-up, you should focus on wiring/conduit at this stage and choose your HA hardware/software later. That way you'll get opportunity to have most of what you want (but over time) and stay within your budget now. But realize that like dgage said, the quality automation stuff is expensive, and you have to choose 2 things out of 3: price, reliability and ease (of use, install, integration etc.). If you get your lighting modules now, you'll have to allocate significant amount of time to learn how to make them work, as you'll have issues, especially with the less expensive brands. I would recommend installing whole house surge protector if you plan on having electronic switches.
 
For you recirculation pump, choose the model that plugs in but does not have timer control. Then you can install a controllable outlet for it. Velux skylights are great, if you get the electric kind, you don't need to pre-wire for control, they can be controlled by RF automation module via 2 relays (you'll need one module per each skylight and shade but you can also buy them later)

You guys are great!  Thank you so much for your help.
 
My contractor will be prewiring according to the PreWire 103 list. 
 
I'd like to buy outlets and light switches that work with some home automation system.  How much more are Centralite Elegance outlets and switches than non-automated ones?  I was at Lowe's and saw they have a home automation set:  http://www.lowes.com/cd_Products_1337707661000_  The outlets and switches for that aren't too expensive.  And I could possibly use them with HomeSeer instead of Lowe's system?
 
So, I'd like to purchase outlets and switches for the house.  What should I get?  The house is pretty standard as far as lighting goes.  We will have some ceiling fans (not sure if they'll include a light or not).
 
And that's so true about being busy with the home build.  I'm barely getting my day job done!  But I just want to make sure that I set things up well for home automation and aren't kicking myself for not doing something now!

Remember the triangle: price, reliability, and ease.  I don't believe the Lowe's automation gear is held in high regard related to the reliability of the technology or the reliability of the actual switches.
 
If you were going to choose Lutron RadioRa 2, I'd say purchase the Maestro series switches so at least they would match when you get the automated ones.  In my mind, you (likely?) don't need every single switch or outlet automated because even at $50 that is a lot of money.  So I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I'd say either go cheap and throw them away later or get some nice matching ones that you can resell later on when you (slowly?) switch over to automated gear.
 
And for me, the security system, whole home audio, and wired shades would require much more thought and focus to ensure you don't forget anything than wireless automation switches.  One other thing, make sure any ceiling fans are wired with two distinct outlets on the wall.
 
David

Thanks!  How many automated outlets would you recommend per room?  Is there a rule of thumb?  Or should I just sit down and plan out exactly what I will want to automate in each room and figure it out from there?
 
And does anyone know if there's a good home automation store in either the San Francisco Bay Area or Sacramento, CA area? 
 
Or even, New Orleans?  (I'm traveling there next week for work).

None?  You said outlets.   It really depends on what you plan to do.  Do you want to turn on/off a lamp?  1.  Do you want to turn on/off a radio (or will you use whole home audio)?  Those are the only two I can think of at this time but then you need to know where you plan to put the furniture, light, and radio.   The main things I would want outlets for are things like stereos or wifi routers (to reset).  But we are all different so you may have different ideas.
 
Light switches, it depends on what you need.  So far I have done the kitchen, primarily due to remodeling and the location of the power switches was poor.  I have also put switches in the garage and back door with a motion sensor in the garage.  My wife really like that and I'm no longer annoyed coming home and realizing the garage light has been left on for no reason for many hours.  I put a switch in the master bedroom and on the nitelite in the master bath.  Just those two switches in the master bed/bath made a huge difference in convenience.  Also realize that I have had the local motion control switches (non automated) in the (non-Master) bathrooms and those have worked well too.  What are my next steps?  I don't know.  I'll probably put a few more switches on the front of the house to randomize the lights when we are out of town.  But I don't have any pressing needs right now.  As projects complete or something pops up, I'm sure I'll add more switches and automation.
 
David

greenhighlighter said:

You guys are great!  Thank you so much for your help.
 
My contractor will be prewiring according to the PreWire 103 list. 
 
I'd like to buy outlets and light switches that work with some home automation system.  How much more are Centralite Elegance outlets and switches than non-automated ones?  I was at Lowe's and saw they have a home automation set:  http://www.lowes.com/cd_Products_1337707661000_  The outlets and switches for that aren't too expensive.  And I could possibly use them with HomeSeer instead of Lowe's system?
 
So, I'd like to purchase outlets and switches for the house.  What should I get?  The house is pretty standard as far as lighting goes.  We will have some ceiling fans (not sure if they'll include a light or not).
 
And that's so true about being busy with the home build.  I'm barely getting my day job done!  But I just want to make sure that I set things up well for home automation and aren't kicking myself for not doing something now!

Click to expand...

Hey Green,
What is the PreWire 103 list? I'm going to be dealing with a contractor for our build soon and I want to make sure he and I are on the same page with regards to wiring standards for home automation/security. Thanks!

greenhighlighter said:

Thanks!  How many automated outlets would you recommend per room?  Is there a rule of thumb?  Or should I just sit down and plan out exactly what I will want to automate in each room and figure it out from there?
 
And does anyone know if there's a good home automation store in either the San Francisco Bay Area or Sacramento, CA area? 
 
Or even, New Orleans?  (I'm traveling there next week for work).

Click to expand...

 
HomeTech solutions in San Jose is the only "brick" HA store I know in Bay Area. But you'll be better getting your gear from the on-line stores like AutomatedOutlet.com and ASIhome.com and even amazon.
 
There is no such thing as a generic "automated outlet", there are many brands and technologies that offer a controllable outlet and they all differ in features, reliability, design and price. First you need to decide what you want from your automated switches.
 
The very basic ones will allow you to turn them on/off with some kind of proprietary remote; the more fancy version of those can be controlled from a smart phone with some proprietary app and require you to have a wifi in your house (example: belkin wemo).
 
The next level of devices is when you can also integrate them with a home automation system. This requires you to figure out which system will you have, because not all HA controllers support all brands, at least not natively. Integration itself can be done on different levels. First level allows your HA controller to turn devices on/off, some devices will respond to a status request from the controller, so they will need to be polled by the controller to synchronize their state. Other devices will report the status instantly as it changes, this allows a lot higher level of integration as you can use your switches as mini-controllers. For example, double tap on a switch can be programmed to initiate a scene, while single tap will control the local load. Some brands offer keypads with extra buttons that can also be programmed to perform scenes that may include other types of devices, like operating shades and arming security system.
 
On top of that there may be design concerns in terms of "looks", some people don't like decora type switches, and that will immediately restrict your choices down to a very few. Another frequent limitation is the fan speed controller, as only very few exist, but that could be solved by combining different technologies with the help of a central controller.
 
So, when you have made your decision on what features are important for you to have in your automated house, it would be easier to recommend the specific brand. And most brands offer plug-in modules, so that you don't have to decide up-front where to install the automated outlets.

I also have used Worthington for many years now.  I'm wondering why I rarely seem them mentioned here.

pete_c said:

I also have used Worthington for many years now.  I'm wondering why I rarely seem them mentioned here.

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Their 'consumer' store front is ASI, and you do see them mentioned here.  The other is a dealer only site.

Thanks BSR.  I never realized that.