Another help-a-newbie post :)

[greenhighlighter]

OK.  So, given I am price-sensitive, I think I'm going to go with Z-Wave or UPB.  UPB doesn't seem to have the reliability issues that Z-Wave does (although I can't imagine I'd have 60 Z-wave devices in my house but who knows).  What's the downside of UPB?

 

[oberkc]

I can only speak from what I have read here, but my perception about the downside of UPB compared to z-wave is that it is slightly more costly and I believe there may not be as many devices available as there are for Z-wave.  Is there a UPB fan module?  UPB thermostat?  UPB door locks?  I believe z-wave devices may be available from a larger number of manufacturers, which tends to suggest broader support by the industry.

 

[dgage]

Like Oberkc, this is based on my reading.

If you choose Zwave, you have a host of devices at your disposal but that potentially leads to a chatty network unless you plan to stay around 40 devices. After 60 is where I've heard of degradation. Also, I have read of users having to renroll all of their Zwave devices but I don't remember the hardware involved or the conditions under which that occurs.

If you choose UPB, you will need to get a repeater or bridge hooked into your wiring but that is easily done by an electrician. Also, since UPB is primarily a lighting technology, you would likely need to utilize a separate technology for thermostats and door locks. I would seriously consider Zigbee over Zwave if I were only using it for non-lighting since it has slightly longer range but not the device selection of Zwave. Whether you choose Zwave or Zigbee you will need to ensure you have a few devices spread out so that you have a reliable mesh network. Based on my research, I found the device cost comparable between UPB and Zwave although there are some cheaper Zwave switches but I wouldn't recommend them as in that case you truly get what you pay for.

So with Zwave you have a much simpler route and it might be completely reliable for you. With UPB, you'd likely gain a little reliability from the technology plus the segmenting of devices to two different technologies. But with UPB, you're implementing two technologies so that would bring a slight bit more complexity but not really since UPB and Zwave are so well supported and many, many on this forum run with more than one technology.

And like Oberkc recommended, the Mi Case Verde Vera Lite is a nice hardware controller for the money with built in Zwave support. For a hardware controller with UPB, I'd recommend the HAI OmniPro, which would give you a nice security and automation controller with built in UPB support and easily added Zwave support.

And to give MY opinion, I'd recommend going with UPB and Zwave but don't see anything wrong with the outright choosing of Zwave for lighting and other controls. There is no wrong answer.

Worst case scenario if you choose Zwave and find it is not as reliable for lighting as you'd like, you could swap out the devices later and would likely be able to get the majority of your money back by selling them. Also realize there are those that have had reliability issues with UPB, primarily from noisy pool or well pumps and once from a faulty power transformer in front of the user's house. Just don't want to give the impression UPBis perfect but the issue count based on my reading is much less on UPB vs Zwave. However, I'm sure there are many users with Zwave that are completely satisfied.

David

 

[dgage]

I just looked up UPB looking for a fan switch (multi-speed control) and didn't run across one made by HAI or Simply Automated, which are the two most popular brands of UPB that I've read about.  You could simply use a standard switch to turn the fan on or off and then use the pull string or built in fan remote to control speed.  Obviously if you are looking to be able to change the fan speed from your automated wall switch or control fan speed from your home automation system then it looks like you would need to go Zwave. 

From personal experience, I never change the speed of my fans, only forward and reverse and on/off.  For forward and reverse I have to use the remote that came with the fan, which is stored in a drawer within the room.

 

 

[greenhighlighter]

OK.  I think Z-wave it is.  My husband likes a faster fan speed, and I prefer slower (although, maybe I should go UPB, hide the fan remote, and never tell him how to change the fan speed... bwahahaha).
 
But ease and cost for me trump potential lack of reliability, especially since I don't think we'll ever have 60 devices.
 
Soooo, next question is... what z-wave devices to get?
 
I'll get the Levitron fan controllers.
 
But what about regular light switches, door locks, thermostat, and how to hook up our hot water recirculator (which we haven't purchased yet)?
 
And what home audio system would work well with z-wave?
 
BTW - my husband and I both have windows 8 phones if that makes a difference.

 

[oberkc]

what z-wave devices to get?

Get the devices that control that which you wish to control.  Given your continued apparent uncertainty, why not start by purchasing a couple of switches and plug-in modules to see how (and if) you like z-wave?  Hold off on door locks, thermostats, and hot-water pumps until you have chosen a controller and have it operational.
 

And what home audio system would work well with z-wave?

My opinion is that audio systems are generally independent of lighting control systems, such as z-wave.  Any (if any) relationship between the two are generally through the controller device.  For now, I would not worry about it.  When it comes time to pick out your controller, add audio systems to your list of considerations.
 

my husband and I both have windows 8 phones if that makes a difference.
 

It may.  Go to you windows 8 store and search for z-wave apps.  Are there any?  Do they work with any particular controller?  Perhaps availability of apps can be a factor driving controller choice.

 

[picta]

OK. 
But ease and cost for me trump potential lack of reliability, especially since I don't think we'll ever have 60 devices.

 

You may just not realize how annoying the luck of reliability may be To make life easier with z-wave, you should consider a high level z-wave controller, like MiCasa Vera or Homeseer Z-troller. Vera is a stand-alone hardware controller and Homeseer is a software based controller that runs on a PC, but may give you more options to interface with your Windows phones. I also would not buy all the devices right away, just get a few and see how you like it.
 
The keypads are great to have for scenes. For example, we have a recirculation pump, and there is a button at every sink that can turn it on for the time necessary to get the hot water to that location. The keypad though is another device that is not available from many brands, but Leviton has it. You may also get a "companion" switch if you do not need many buttons, but usually people find other things to control from the keypads. Either way, have your electrician use deep boxes with neutrals, and consider using an extra gang space for a keypad. If your fan have lights, you'll have to have it wired to use a separate switch for the light.
 
Z-wave locks are available from many hardware brands like Kwikset, Baldwin and Yale. For a music system I would look at Sonos. It does not work "natively" with z-wave, but has a smart-phone app and can also be controlled from a HA controller.
 
I would also have a cat5 wire to each thermostat location, this will allow you an option of the hard-wired thermostats. Hard-wired anything is better than wireless in both reliability and price.

 

[greenhighlighter]

Get the devices that control that which you wish to control.  Given your continued apparent uncertainty, why not start by purchasing a couple of switches and plug-in modules to see how (and if) you like z-wave?  Hold off on door locks, thermostats, and hot-water pumps until you have chosen a controller and have it operational.
 
My opinion is that audio systems are generally independent of lighting control systems, such as z-wave.  Any (if any) relationship between the two are generally through the controller device.  For now, I would not worry about it.  When it comes time to pick out your controller, add audio systems to your list of considerations.
 
It may.  Go to you windows 8 store and search for z-wave apps.  Are there any?  Do they work with any particular controller?  Perhaps availability of apps can be a factor driving controller choice.

Any recommendations on which switches and plug-in modules?
 
And I get the logic on waiting, but I hate to buy a door lock, thermostat, and recirculator now only to replace them in a bit with ones that would work with my HA system...

 

[greenhighlighter]

You may just not realize how annoying the luck of reliability may be To make life easier with z-wave, you should consider a high level z-wave controller, like MiCasa Vera or Homeseer Z-troller. Vera is a stand-alone hardware controller and Homeseer is a software based controller that runs on a PC, but may give you more options to interface with your Windows phones. I also would not buy all the devices right away, just get a few and see how you like it.
 
The keypads are great to have for scenes. For example, we have a recirculation pump, and there is a button at every sink that can turn it on for the time necessary to get the hot water to that location. The keypad though is another device that is not available from many brands, but Leviton has it. You may also get a "companion" switch if you do not need many buttons, but usually people find other things to control from the keypads. Either way, have your electrician use deep boxes with neutrals, and consider using an extra gang space for a keypad. If your fan have lights, you'll have to have it wired to use a separate switch for the light.
 
Z-wave locks are available from many hardware brands like Kwikset, Baldwin and Yale. For a music system I would look at Sonos. It does not work "natively" with z-wave, but has a smart-phone app and can also be controlled from a HA controller.
 
I would also have a cat5 wire to each thermostat location, this will allow you an option of the hard-wired thermostats. Hard-wired anything is better than wireless in both reliability and price.

For the software-based controller, I need to have a computer at home, on all the time, right?  We currently only have our work laptops and an ancient laptop (running like windows 97 or something).  Would it be worth buying a cheap computer for home, or should we just go with the hardware one?

 

[potts.mike]

I have been extremely happy with the leviton stuff, not very happy with anything else.

 

[oberkc]

Would it be worth buying a cheap computer for home, or should we just go with the hardware one?

Go with the hardware one, I say

 

[dgage]

I'd recommend you get the Mi Casa Verde Vera Lite as you get a lot for the cost, both a Zwave interface and also a hardware controller.

Picta and Potts recommended the Leviton brand of light switches so I'd seriously recommend you consider those. I say that because the most popular Zwave interface is the Leviton VRC0P and that is the one, at a minimum, that all Zwave devices are tested against.

You also read Picta discuss the keypads. Before I selected Lutron RadioRa2, one of the main things I was disappointed in was the selection of UPB keypads. One of the primary reasons I selected RadioRa 2 was that the keypads were much nicer than anything else on the DIY market and the local load could be controlled by any button on the keypad (many keypads only let the top button control the local load. Regarding lighting devices, I would look at one that has keypads you like and the fan control you want.

 

[dgage]

By the way, I regret to inform you that if you decide to let Windows Phone 8 dictate your choice of home automation, you won't have any. For home audio, there is the Phonos application that controls the Sonos system and works well.

 

[oktoberrust11]

By the way, I regret to inform you that if you decide to let Windows Phone 8 dictate your choice of home automation, you won't have any. For home audio, there is the Phonos application that controls the Sonos system and works well.

 
I'm just starting out and don't have any experience, but I also have a WP8 phone, and am leaning towards Z-Wave; looks like there's at least some individuals trying:
 
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/search?q=zwave

 

[dgage]

Good to know.  Thanks.