About to pull the trigger.... HAI vs Control4?

[jaydubb1]

After seeing both systems in action, I've come to the conclusion that they both rock!


My problem right now: I'm on information overload, seriously cross-eyed from googling and reading, and 100% stuck. Feedback is appreciated here!

I was able to see Control4 in a fully functioning environment, and I'm 100% convinced it will handle my needs - but I'm not sold on the price and I don't know if I will be able to make changes without calling the Geeksquad to my home.

I was able to see HAI in a home, but it wasn't complete and the system I saw was not a true representation of the product I would get - he had some stuff retrofitted, older systems integrated, and he told me "yours will be slightly faster" since I'm hardwiring and building fresh instead of going wireless on an older home.

Control4 is 40k, HAI is 30k - a $10,000 difference. I can afford it, but I don't know if I need it.

Here are my needs:

========================================

Audio:

• 6-8 zones, utilizing Pandora, iTunes, AM/FM, possibly Sirius.

Media:

• I use Dish Network, AppleTV.
• 5-9 TVs in the house, all connected to satellite somehow. We use them for local news, football, and Modern Family. (Only have time for one show a week, due to working so much to pay for all these toys )

Security:

• 4-6 IP cameras - need to have access to the cameras via the TVs in the house, iPhone, internet. Would like to see all cameras on one screen.
• Standard stuff - window breaks, motion, door, etc.

Automation:

• Temperature control
• Door/gate control (lock / unlock front door, open entry gate, close garage doors)
• "Good morning" - turn on lights, temp adjustment, etc
• "Good night" - close garage doors and driveway gate, arm security, lock doors, dim lights, turn on exterior lights, etc
• Christmas lights! Turn on slowly at dusk, turn off at Xclock.
• Vacation mode - random light sequences.
• etc

Lighting:

• whatever's clever.

==================================

As far as I can tell, my needs are pretty basic for a Home Automation... What say you, friendly cocoontech residents?

Thanks in advance!

 

[pete_c]

Jay, personally its up to you and what you specfically want and are willing to pay for.

You said you are willing to spend whatever it takes.

My problem right now: I'm on information overload, seriously cross-eyed from googling and reading, and 100% stuck

You already have had your fill and appear that you don't want to know any more; therefore instead just pay someone to know for you and make the assumption you will get what you pay for; whatever the cost; whoever or whatever you decide to deal with.

 

[jaydubb1]

Jay, personally its up to you and what you specfically want and are willing to pay for.

You said you are willing to spend whatever it takes.



You already have had your fill and appear that you don't want to know any more; therefore instead just pay someone to know for you and make the assumption you will get what you pay for; whatever the cost; whoever or whatever you decid to deal with.

No offense, but that was no help at all. Please ignore my thread if you have nothing constructive to add to it, thanks.

 

[pete_c]

The answer wasn't meant to be constructive or offensive.

 

[jaydubb1]

Well, thanks for the bump then. Have a nice day.

 

[wuench]

I think the big difference is HAI is DIY friendly, if you get them to give you the installer code you can make changes to the system yourself. Control4 I am not 100% sure but I think you will have to call the installer any time you wish to make a change. You should definitely ask.

We lean a little more to the DIY on this board so you won't find as much on Control4 as you will HAI. There is also a lot about the Elk M1 which could also meet your needs and is also DIY friendly. Those prices are obviously installed, you could save some $$$ if you are willing to read up and install some components yourself.

 

[pete_c]

I guess I can use a relative's use of IT here. For many years she's utilized a laptop around the home doing this and that, email ,surfing the web, etc.

Over the last 10 years whatever the laptop was (OS wise); it would literally cease to function after say 3-4 months for whatever reason. Hardware wise the laptop's were always function; just the OS would get trashed. The last laptop endeavor was just a small thin netbook. The same occurred with the netbook after say 2-3 months. Her preference was more to just give it away then to "fix" it.

Fast forward to a couple of months ago. She purchased an IPad with all the bells and whistles. She does her facebook, email, banking, etc. with it. She doesn't know or care about the grey areas of how it works; just that it works for her.

She also purchased an Iphone; again she really doesn't care how it works; just that it works.

I have put a "touch" of HA in their home. Really its just automating their landscaping lighting schedules. The schedule is off a month or so ago and she will not make an adjustment to it for whatever reason. I had to make the adjustment to the schedule (even though I showed her how to do that).

If I were to introduce a small Ipad widget on her Ipad that controlled the scheduling or even turn on and off the landscaping lighting she really would be overjoyed that she could do said endeavor with her Ipad. Her assumption would be only related to what her Ipad could do and nothing else.

We drove together to the airport last week. She was a passenger and I drove. She wanted to show me how she could call a relative and do video while taking. She was thrilled about being able to see the relative while speaking. She really didn't care how it worked but rather that she could do a video phone call in the car to another relative.

A short tangent here.....

My wife has been around the house TTS now for quit a long time (started doing this "stuff" in the 1980's). When she watched some talk show last year with Roger Ebert's text to speech; she thought it was a new invention and for whatever reason didn't realize the TTS in the house was really the same thing.

So the finalty of my comments really just relate to your interface to your HA endeavor; whatever you choose to utilize and your preferences of said mechanisms. It could be a PC, wall touch screen or a tablet.

Basically what's running behind that interface (grey area) your only care is that it works.

You want to know how it works; but in the end you just want it to work.

And really you want to get to the HA interface or controls the easiest or quickest way possible.

If that means a tablet or a wall touchscreen or a PC; it's whatever you are most comfortable with.

The other piece is getting the best bang for your buck; the bang is what you decide or define it to be.

I have two houses set up with the HAI OPII; one in Illinois and one in Florida. I like to tinker and the HAI OPII satisfies my "tinkering" thirst. In the midwest I also have a server with software running on it called Homeseer. It compliments the HAI OPII panel. I do automation on both entities. I have a variety of means of different interfaces to both entities. (wall mounted touchscreens, tablets and PC's). It really depends on my mood what and when I prefer to utilize what interface. I did though recently as a "favor" to a neighbor in FL replace their legacy alarm panel with an HAI OPII. Its been about two years now and they are very happy with it. All they really care about though is that it works and that their interface to it always works; really nothing else. BTW had the first panel I purchased been an Elk instead of an HAI (which I am extremely fond of); it would have mostly been an Elk M1 in FL and at the neighbors house in FL. The software Homeseer has been now utilized in the last two houses in the midwest from around the time it was first introduced in the late 1990's. Its really doing automation stuff at a different level than the HA panel with a mixture of over 16 serial, one USB and a couple of network hardware devices, running over 200 events and a few hundred variables with a mixture of scripts and "plugins". Homeseer is talking X10, Insteon and UPB. Meanwhile still adding HW to the serial ports on the HAI panel such that it will do more "tomorrow" with more devices than today. Today the HAI panel is talking X10, UPB and Z-Wave.

 

[jml]

Based on how you portray your needs and present yourself in this thread, I'd recommend Control4. It has a more professional polish to its interfaces and solutions which will make you feel like it's money well spent. You will also spend very very little time futzing with it, which will work with your busy schedule. Control4 does a great job of upgrading its software and hardware to take advantage of emerging trends, which will also you add the latest gizmos to it as time goes on. Both systems can do most anything you can dream up. The control4 will do it with minimum effort on your part and the results will be more polished, especially its user interface and control of A/V systems. The HAI system is very functional and more satisfying to those who like to hack/tweak/DIY their systems together.

With Control4 you will spend a lot more over time with professional installers doing the heavy lifting, but again, it will be minimal effort to you and what you experience will be "it just works".

Personally I would pick an HAI system, primarily because its open to me the user/owner with a hobby.

 

[jaydubb1]

Thanks jml, very informative response.

 

[tmbrown97]

jaydubb1 - if you want to invest a little "sweat equity" then you can save a lot of money and go DIY - there are solutions that support DIY, like HAI and Elk... if you want to pay someone else to do all the work for you, and are willing to pay considerably more, then have a ball with Control4 - their interfaces are awesome and are hard to beat! But this is of course a DIY forum, and being locked out of our systems would drive most of us mad.

Also - I've seen the forums where people can be - well - rude... this isn't one. Your post #3 was counterproductive.

I just reread - you've budgeted between $30K and $40K... if you want to spend the money and be done, go control4. But - I'll just say - I have a completely integrated house - HVAC, sprinklers, lighting (~65 light loads), security, etc - and I have about ~$10K into it, and honestly not much time. For the $30K difference, I am available for hire/travel!

All joking aside though, that's a conscious decision that has to be made... If you don't have the time and just want/need it done now and don't want to screw with it, then a pro-only solution may be your way to go. If you want hybrid pro-but-with-DIY-support, then HAI is your winner IMO. I also agree that the crestron and control4 interfaces are the best looking... but I can't make the price leap personally since I'm so technically capable.

 

[Xpendable]

I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents... Do not even consider Control4 if you have any intention of customizing things yourself. Control4 is designed to be as closed and proprietary as you can get and requires installers for every little thing. I have two relatives that both invested in Control4 and they both got really screwed over by them. Both of them had Control4 remote controls that failed. My 3 year old neice destroyed the LCD on one of them, the other just failed all on its own. Should be simple to order a new one right? Wrong. Control4 purposely made the new remotes incompatible with the old equipment, and purposely made it impossible to buy the old remotes. If you want a new remote, guess what? You have to pay thousands of dollars to replace all of your existing equipment. I'm not kidding. It's designed to be completely incompatible between versions. Even the touch screens would have to be replaced according to my brother-in-law. Ridiculous. They were able to find used remotes on EBay, but before they would work, Control4 makes you pay them some ridiculous amount of money (it was in the hundreds, I don't remember the exact amount) to program the remotes so they would actually work and not be a doorstop. This would be the same even if you were able to buy a brand new one. In my professionally opinion, Control4 is doing everything they can to take advantage of their customers. They assume that you will not know that you are absolutely being ripped off. Fortunately my relatives were able to buy a $100 support plan through ABT which was a way they could get the remotes programmed without having to pay Control4 hundreds of bucks. My relatives and I are so turned off by Control4 that there is no way in hell I would personally recommend them to anyone. Shady company if you ask me. Just my 2 cents.

 

[pete_c]

Kind of reminds me a bit when the first "remote" alarm, unlocking door FOB's came out for the typically purchased automobile. Replacement of said FOB's via the car dealer was pretty pricey when they were first introduced.

I'm still searching for the ultimate reasonably priced multimedia receiver having spent literally thousands upgrading throught the years...and still waiting...but my favorite legacy turntable was a Thorens (it actually had a hand crafted look about it) and it beat hands down the Mark II Technics platter I replaced it with...guess lately now its an old age thing....consumers today have become "smart shoppers" and typically will learn to get the best bang for their buck...knowing it involves a bit of rolling up the sleeves type work to get to this point...while others think they are getting the best for their money...they honestly don't care and leave it to a quick talking sales person to make these decisions for them...why not though....if you have the monetary means...does it matter?

 

[jaydubb1]

.... if you want to spend the money and be done, go control4. But - I'll just say - I have a completely integrated house - HVAC, sprinklers, lighting (~65 light loads), security, etc - and I have about ~$10K into it, and honestly not much time. For the $30K difference, I am available for hire/travel!

All joking aside though, that's a conscious decision that has to be made... If you don't have the time and just want/need it done now and don't want to screw with it, then a pro-only solution may be your way to go. If you want hybrid pro-but-with-DIY-support, then HAI is your winner IMO. I also agree that the crestron and control4 interfaces are the best looking... but I can't make the price leap personally since I'm so technically capable.

I'm down for saving 30k!

How did you do your whole home for that amount of money? I'm very interested to hear about your setup!

I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents... Do not even consider Control4 if you have any intention of customizing things yourself. Control4 is designed to be as closed and proprietary as you can get and requires installers for every little thing. I have two relatives that both invested in Control4 and they both got really screwed over by them. Both of them had Control4 remote controls that failed. My 3 year old neice destroyed the LCD on one of them, the other just failed all on its own. Should be simple to order a new one right? Wrong. Control4 purposely made the new remotes incompatible with the old equipment, and purposely made it impossible to buy the old remotes. If you want a new remote, guess what? You have to pay thousands of dollars to replace all of your existing equipment. I'm not kidding. It's designed to be completely incompatible between versions. Even the touch screens would have to be replaced according to my brother-in-law. Ridiculous. They were able to find used remotes on EBay, but before they would work, Control4 makes you pay them some ridiculous amount of money (it was in the hundreds, I don't remember the exact amount) to program the remotes so they would actually work and not be a doorstop. This would be the same even if you were able to buy a brand new one. In my professionally opinion, Control4 is doing everything they can to take advantage of their customers. They assume that you will not know that you are absolutely being ripped off. Fortunately my relatives were able to buy a $100 support plan through ABT which was a way they could get the remotes programmed without having to pay Control4 hundreds of bucks. My relatives and I are so turned off by Control4 that there is no way in hell I would personally recommend them to anyone. Shady company if you ask me. Just my 2 cents.

The more I dig, the more I'm agreeing with you. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[jaydubb1]

Ruled out Control4. Now I'm looking for feedback on HAI vs ELK vs... ?

http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20424&view=findpost&p=166267

Thank you all for the help so far!

 

[rwarshawski]

Another way to stretch yout brain!

I have gone a different route. It all started when my wife wanted less wall clutter. A Lutron control system was gonna bee way over what I thought it was worth. Found I couldn't afford Control4 or their controlling attitude, but that got me interested in the automation aspect.
Hmmm....limnited budget...not so handy with computers...would like to automate but at what price...how much can I spend before the WAF crosses into negative territory....

A local guy came up with the solution and we have been v. happy with it. Uses a hybrid with Cinemar and HAL, and now incorporating ELK. USes UPB as the network for lighting, a lot of hardwiring, plus wireless for touch screen pc's ( I had a couple from another life) and iPads and iPhones. A Russound audio distribution with 6 zones expandable to more, a matrix switcher for the TV's, movies from Bluray, Netflix, NAS, all the music I have via touch screen with cover art,etc, or by voice command. Security by touch screen or voice, remote control via iphone or the web, alerts from the system with temp, alarm, etc. Control of multiple Lutron motorized blinds. Can do cameras but I am not there yet. After initial configuration, it works very relibly. Wake up to slowly increasing light, soft chamber music....if you hit the snooze too often it turns the lights on full and plays George Thoroughgood too loud. Voicemail system with multiple mail boxes. CID that puts certain numbers through after pausing the AV, otheres to appropriate VM, telemarketers to their own "special" mailbox. Hvac, occupancy sensors, reminders...Heck- it can even take a verbal grocery list and email it to the local market.

You don't hear a lot about it on this site, but the system works well for me, and the price let me do a lot more things than I thought I could with other systems. I can even tweak it myself now, such as adding a scheduleto turn Christmas lights on or light up the hallway when we have visitors.

Another way to skin the automation cat.

bbob