Another newbee security system question

[Ckerch]

I am looking at jumping in to the Home automation/ Security arena which I have never had either one. I am getting ready strip the drywall off the 70% of the first floor walls. Also, I will be replacing all the windows with Anderson with in the year. The house is a typical 2700 sqft Victorian style house with wrap around porch and basement. For controls, I plan on getting an M1 Gold. Since I am taking off the drywall on most of the first floor I would like to use wired sensors.
If I use hidden window contacts and drill into the frame, it voids the warranty so I thought about using glass breakage sensors, motion sensors and hidden door contacts.
Here are my questions

1. Have the glass breakage sensors advanced to a level were false detects are eliminated?
2. I was looking at either Bosch dual tech blue line or optex sensors. Optex claims you can use two sensors close and they will not trip each other. Is that a concern or marketing hype?
3. If mounting a motion sensor at the end of the dining room/ kitchen, does the heat from the stove (which is about 26 ft away ) cause a problem?
4. Is all door contacts pretty much the same or is there a preferred brand?

I am sure I missed something, but this will help me get started
Your opinions and help would be much appreciated

Thank You
Carl

 

[Del91574]

FWIW, Andersen doesn't void the entire window warranty, they just will not warranty the affected portion that was drilled, such as the sill. Their windows can use rare earth donut mags, so the only part that would be that would not be warrantied would be the sill.

1. Visonic G-tech. Best glassbreak I've installed over the years.

2. Marketing hype, but some validity when microwave is involved. I stick to the older 835I's compared to their newer blue line equivalent, smaller footprint, but equivalent detector.

3. Only if you intend on arming the system with the stove/oven on. If it was a commercial level range, where it's constantly hot, then yes.

4. I've used GRI, Sentrol (GE), Honeywell/Ademco, Nascom, and Tane over the years. I've started to standardize more towards the Honeywell units recently, because they have "full size" screws on their terminal contacts. I stopped using contacts with pigtails wherever possible.

 

[Ckerch]

I went ahead and found a company that still had the 835i and ordered 6. I see they cover up to 35ft but are they ok to use in a much smaller area lick a mud room or front entry way?

For window contacts that are hidden, I assume you drill and install them on the bottom sill plate and top plate for a double hung window. Can you just drill through the wood without piercing the vinyl clad? Would that cause the contact not get enough magnetic field to open the contact.

Also, is there a specific model number of Visonic G-Tech sensor you prefer? Also, if you running glass breakage sensors, is it over kill to run window contacts.

Del, Thanks so much for you help
Carl

 

[tmbrown97]

It's not overkill to run window contacts - what if you leave a window open and someone just climbs in? That won't set off the alarm without the contacts. Your goal in security is to catch them before they get inside the house - sure, motions should catch them once they're in, but by then - well, they're in. Even if they trigger the alarm and run out, they may grab the wallet or purse or laptop off the table on their way. Or if you're home, it could cause an unfriendly confrontation during a state of panic - all things you want to avoid. Hopefully the motion detector is the last-ditch effort to catch an intruder.

For wired window contacts that require you to drill through the frame, drill on the sides - not the bottom... if it's an area where water could settle, if your sealant doesn't hold up, you'll end up with water in your walls.

Motion sensors can sometimes see through walls - not normally a big issue; and really a non-issue with dual-tech motions.

 

[Del91574]

I wouldn't put too much worry in drilling most windows. Vinyl extrusions or replacements are a different ballgame, as they typically have a second sill and are designed to take water and then weep it outside. A typical 3/8 contact in a wood or wood/vinyl, or even fiberglass sill isn't too likely to leak, the contacts are a pretty tight interference fit.

Recessed/hidden contacts and not drilling are mutually exclusive items. If you want concealed, you're going to have to drill, otherwise there's other ways to skin a cat. I, however, would not recommend drilling a vinyl extrusion, but vinyl clad wood is generally a different thing.

 

[Ckerch]

Del

The windows that I plan to use are wood with vinyl clad. Because both window panes can move in a double hung and provide potentially two entry points , do you put 2 per window (one to protect the top window pane and one for the bottom pane)? Also, do you use Honeywell M/N 944T contacts?

Work2play
How do you drill in the side without damaging the window track?

Thanks for the feedback
Carl

 

[Del91574]

Drilling on the side isn't a solve all, and actually on a lot of windows, there's a spring balance for the sashes, so that's another thing....drill the sill for concealed or worry about hitting a spring balance and causing a more expensive bill.

I typically would use something out of the 944T selection for a window, with a magnet to fit the particulars of the install.

 

[Ckerch]

I ordered my 944t sensors and then I ordered a couple Anderson windows. While I was up at the store, I was trying to fiqure out were to put those sensors. Unfortunately, the bottom seal has a rib aligning to the center of the bottom window pane (right where I would install the sensor). If I go on the inside side of the rib, the magnet would screw right though the weather stripping. If I mount the sensor on the outside edge of the rib there would not be enough room to mount the magnet. So I had to cancel the order because I could not find away of mounting the sensor. So I am now looking at a mini surface mount. All the ones I found have pigtails attach instead of screw terminal. Del or anyone else, have you had durability issues with sensors containing pigtails.

Also, unrelated to security, I have to have furnace and duct work done and the company suggested I install a 2 zone heating system (one zone per floor). He wants to install a Honeywell system but I don't think it interfaces with the Elk M1 system. What systems does people use? Know that I think about it, I should probably start a thread in the Home Automation section.

Carl

 

[tmbrown97]

For split-zone HVAC, there's really two ways to go... Either you get a generic zone-controller of sorts that uses two normal thermostats (and the zone controller handles the logic of splitting the system up)... in this case you can use two of the communicating thermostats (HAI, RCS or AprilAire are the ones); or you use an RCS Communicating Zone Controller; in which case all the brains are contained in the zone controller, and the thermostats are really their proprietary dummy display terminals.

I went with the latter out of wiring simplicity (only needs 4 wires from the control board to the thermostats making retrofit really easy, and the serial connection just goes to the controller)... but if you can get wire around easily, I really like the look of the HAI OmniStat 2 - it's the best looking option.

The honeywell systems aren't compatible with home automation systems just yet (they're working on it; but trying to go proprietary mostly at first from what I hear). If it's a honeywell zone controller and uses normal thermostats, that's fine - you can replace the tstats with communicating ones; otherwise if it's a complete system it probably won't work for integration.