Apologies and another question

[mikefamig]

There is no common (between power supplies) when you use the P1216 either...

That is true but it doesn't make it a good thing.
 
Understand that some electrical circuits make switching decisions based on voltage levels and sometimes based on the difference in voltages between two points in the circuit. When you have two separate power supplies powering several deivices like when I used the p212s to power a dbh and the M1 control to power a second dbh and all it's devices it can be critical for all commons to be tied together. If one voltage is measured to a different common reference than that of another voltage then the results can be unpredictable.
 
I hope that my explanation made things clearer and not more confusing.
 
Mike.
 
Edit
 
As I said above I think that simply powering the twa as an audio amplifier is probably not a problem until you connect the ac and battery supervision to the controller.....I think. RAL may be able to correct me on this.

 

[RAL]

There is no common (between power supplies) when you use the P1216 either...

 
The jumper cable between the TWA and the M1 provides a common connection between the power supplies, although it may be of marginal quality.

 

[drvnbysound]

The jumper cable between the TWA and the M1 provides a common connection between the power supplies, although it may be of marginal quality.

 
In that case yes - assuming the connections aren't isolated as mentioned on the previous page. However, the P1216 is included with the XEP, which is where Mike got it from. So, when powering the XEP, it's not common.

 

[drvnbysound]

That is true but it doesn't make it a good thing.
 
Understand that some electrical circuits make switching decisions based on voltage levels and sometimes based on the difference in voltages between two points in the circuit. When you have two separate power supplies powering several deivices like when I used the p212s to power a dbh and the M1 control to power a second dbh and all it's devices it can be critical for all commons to be tied together. If one voltage is measured to a different common reference than that of another voltage then the results can be unpredictable.
 
I hope that my explanation made things clearer and not more confusing.
 
Mike.
 
Edit
 
As I said above I think that simply powering the twa as an audio amplifier is probably not a problem until you connect the ac and battery supervision to the controller.....I think. RAL may be able to correct me on this.

 
Did you have any problems after you received the new M1G board, and were powering the TWA from the P1216? If I followed correctly, I thought it ran this way without issue for approx 5 days?

 

[RAL]

If one voltage is measured to a different common reference than that of another voltage then the results can be unpredictable.


...
 
As I said above I think that simply powering the twa as an audio amplifier is probably not a problem until you connect the ac and battery supervision to the controller.....I think. RAL may be able to correct me on this.

 
You need a common connection between the power supplies when a signal is being used to send information from one device to another.  A good example of this is the M1's outputs that connect to the TWA.  The outputs are +12V relative to the M1's power supply common (NEG) terminal.  Without a common connection, the TWA has no reference point to determine if the input is on or off (+12V or 0V).  And, as you say, that makes things unpredictable
 
In the case of the Altronix AC power and battery supervision outputs, these are Form C relays, and have no connection to the Altronix power supply common/NEG. So, just like with a window contact, you need to run 2 wires over to the M1 in order to do the supervision.  The 2 wire connection allows the M1 to have a reference point, which will be the M1's NEG terminal.  But that won't create a common-to-common connection with the Altronix common.

 

[RAL]

In that case yes - assuming the connections aren't isolated as mentioned on the previous page. However, the P1216 is included with the XEP, which is where Mike got it from. So, when powering the XEP, it's not common.

 
I hope you won't think I'm trying to pick a fight, but even with the XEP, there is a common-to-common connection through the RS232 cable that connects the XEP to the M1.

 

[drvnbysound]

I hope you won't think I'm trying to pick a fight, but even with the XEP, there is a common-to-common connection through the RS232 cable that connects the XEP to the M1.

 
No worries. I assume you are referring to the GND of the RS232 signaling. Is that at the same potential as the GND connection of the P1216? I know I haven't measured it.

 

[RAL]

No worries. I assume you are referring to the GND of the RS232 signaling. Is that at the same potential as the GND connection of the P1216? I know I haven't measured it.

 
Yes, I checked my XEP board and the RS232 signal ground is connected to the XEP's power ground.

 

[mikefamig]

Did you have any problems after you received the new M1G board, and were powering the TWA from the P1216? If I followed correctly, I thought it ran this way without issue for approx 5 days?

I ran it for five days that way without issue. Then yesterday evening I moved the twa to the altronix and the errant chimes returned. Then I moved the twa back to the p1216 and still errant chimes.
 
Yesterday evening I removed the twa and it has been fine since.

 

[mikefamig]

I'd like to know if anyone here has an M1TWA and M1XRFTW running on the same system.
 
Mike.

 

[mikefamig]

RAL
 
Would one wire from the common on teh altronix distribution board to the M1 suffice?
 
Mike.

 

[mikefamig]

I can't think of a simple explanation for this.  The TWA primarily takes outputs from the M1, and the only inputs back to the M1 are the audio from the microphones.  It's hard to see how that could cause errant chimes.  The chime must be originating from the M1, and all I can think of is that there is some interaction going on between the two power supplies.  Why this also wouldn't happen when the TWA is getting power from the P1216 is puzzling.
 
[Edit]:  Corrected connector number below:
 
So... do you have the +12V red wire connected from the J4 connector on the TWA back to the M1?  I assume you are providing power to the TWA from the Altronix via the AUX power input.  If you do have the red wire connected, I think I would try disconnecting that as the next step.
 
It's never a good idea to have the +V outputs from two power supplies connected together, unless they were both designed to operate in parallel.  It surprises me that Elk doesn't specifically say that the red wire should be disconnected when an aux supply is used.

RAL
 
With the twa on the bench and completely disconnected from teh system I attached the p1216 to the aux power supply screw posts. I measured 12.12vdc at that point. I then measured the red and black leads of the ribbon cable that would connect to j16 on the M1 and there is no voltage. The two power inputs on teh twa are isolated when powered only from the aux input.
 
Mike.

 

[RAL]

Would one wire from the common on teh altronix distribution board to the M1 suffice?

 
Yes, making the common-to-common connection to the Altronix distribution board would be fine, since it has a good, solid connection back to the power supply board DC- terminal.

 

[RAL]

Ok, that's good information to know.  Kudos to Elk for providing that isolation.
 
So, if it isn't the power supplies fighting each other that cause the errant chimes, then that really leaves me scratching my head as to how the TWA could be causing the problem.  Your evidence sure points to the TWA, but I just don't see how it could do this.

 

[mikefamig]

Don't forget that I mentioned earlier that I conected my 18ah battery to the M1 and when I powered it up the system chimed a zone violation. That was probably when the error returned to the system but I dismissed it at the time that it happened.
 
Also I called elk today and was advised to reset the panel through global 45 and I did that a couple of hours ago and so far so good.
 
I can not imagine how or why but it seems possible that connecting the 18ah battery to the control may have damaged it or at least necessitated a reset. So this may have nothing at all to do with the twa.
 
Mike.