BAT CDMA (CBAT) dual path bug....

[madas]

My coax is underground so they'd have to go a fair way out to try and cut it.  I also have a cellular based internet backup that automatically kicks in (substantially quicker than theirs it seems!)
 
That being said they shouldn't be relying on MY dual path routing when they sell this product as creating its own dual path routing.
 
I wonder if AlarmRelay have an old fashioned telephone number that I can use as a backup for the IPDataTel?

 

[sorka]

My coax is underground so they'd have to go a fair way out to try and cut it.  I also have a cellular based internet backup that automatically kicks in (substantially quicker than theirs it seems!)
 
That being said they shouldn't be relying on MY dual path routing when they sell this product as creating its own dual path routing.
 
I wonder if AlarmRelay have an old fashioned telephone number that I can use as a backup for the IPDataTel?

 
Mine is underground too except where it pops up at the top of the cup-de-sac in a surface junction box so that comcast and pull new lines or disconnect lines for 4 houses that junction box serves. I guarantee you yours is similar and the professional criminals know exactly where to go to cut the line. You're coax is not underground all the way to your nearest node.
 
So you have two cellular devices on your alarm? The CBAT and some other device???

 

[madas]

Thats correct - its underground on my property and on my street and pops out at the end of the street (a fair distance from my house).  I'm hoping that this adds a few minutes to the time it takes them to attempt to enter my property and would allow some things to switch over.  
 
At one point I had a Phone line selector connected to my alarm and then a POTS line in port1 and a GSM backup in port2.  The alarm would try to dial XXXX first and if that failed it would dial ##XXXX (## selects line 2).  I could certainly do this again if I want to create a backup for the IPDataTel.  The selector does not require independent power.
 
My house internet primary is a cable modem and for backup I have a cellular hotspot plan (but hard wired to my firewall) which automatically switches when the cable is down.

 

[Del91574]

....which it would be as they have been notified and in writing and are aware of the bug that will prevent first responder notifications should the customers ISP drop since it won't fallback to cellular. If this was an unknown bug that they hadn't yet had a chance to address or warn customers about, then yes, but now they know about it. They have customers using CBATs for dual path notifications that don't work. If they don't notify their customers who are in this situation, then it is gross negligence and no amount of waiver signing will avoid the legal ramifications.
 
In my case, they're going to monitor my Envisalink 4 over IP and the CBAT only over cellular. It's not an optimal solution for me as the IP Fob app is quite a bit slower when going only over cellular but it's slower by seconds, not minutes or never as is the case when the CBAT is plugged into a router that has no internet. 

Not to argue, but it's going to be a moot point as the communications routing is provided "BY OTHERS" and they are going to accept zero liability as the central station. Standard industry boilerplate clauses will trump any claims of gross negligence. Also, once accepting a non-listed route and service, the design flaw is going to be the only item up for discussion, which again, will be summarily judged and covered under the boilerplate contract which generally has set recourse and dollar values associated with it. (normally around $250 range).
 
This are clearly design issues with the 3rd party hardware, both the Enviaslink and Ipdatatel unit....both not UL listed, not a FW bug.

 

[ano]

The best solution really is the TG-1 Express.  It is UL Listed so Del is happy, but more importantly its ONLY cellular.  In other-words, it doesn't need any logic to decide between IP or cellular.  It uses NO wiring except for the short wire between the panel and unit, so the cutting/burning of a phone/IP cable is moot. Is cellular 100.00% up, no, but its pretty close. Cell towers are required to have battery backup and many have generator backup, as they are considered life safety devices. Overall, cellular only is going to be just as reliable, if not more so than cellular and IP combined, which as we have shown here is not all that reliable.
 
The TG-1 Express that Alarm Relay uses is AT&T, but if your AT&T signal is poor, I believe they make a TG-1 which is CDMA for Verizon, but I'm not sure Alarm Relay offers that model, but they probably can get it.
 
The TG-1 maintains a constant data connection between TG-1 unit and Telguard, and if that connection is broken, the TG-1 triggers a relay which can be monitored by the panel.  In the several months that I have owned it, that connection has not been dropped even once. The TG-1 does not simply make a cellular call when your alarm goes off, its in contact with the monitoring station continuously.
 
The only negative of all this is cost, since someone has to pay for the data between the TG-1 and Telguard, which is greater than a modem that only connects on occasion, but you get what you pay for.

 

[madas]

I had asked about that but they didn't give me a straight answer.  Virtually no AT&T service at my address so Verizon is our only option.

 

[ano]

I had asked about that but they didn't give me a straight answer.  Virtually no AT&T service at my address so Verizon is our only option.

Its really Telguard that monitors their TG-1's and Alarm Relay gets their information from Telguard. I'm pretty sure Telguard supports the AT&T unit and the Verizon unit, but Alarm Relay may only offer one, and is too lazy to get the other for you. 
 
You can connect the TG-1 to an external antenna, but then you are adding in another point of failure.

 

[madas]

I have an external antenna (which is in the attic) that I'm using on the IPDataTel.  Without that I wouldn't get Verizon either!

 

[ano]

I have an external antenna (which is in the attic) that I'm using on the IPDataTel.  Without that I wouldn't get Verizon either!

So if you called the fire department directly, how long would it take them to realistically reach you?  That might be a consideration as well. That is the second part of the equation.

 

[madas]

we aren't to far from police or fire.  Both are within a 5 minute drive so i'd assume a less than 15 minute response.
 
I just had alarmrelay on the phone.  They told me IPDataTel released a new firmware and AR pushed it to me last night.  the failover is now down to about 3 or 4 minutes and it seems to be consistent.  So its getting better.

 

[sorka]

Not to argue, but it's going to be a moot point as the communications routing is provided "BY OTHERS" and they are going to accept zero liability as the central station. Standard industry boilerplate clauses will trump any claims of gross negligence. Also, once accepting a non-listed route and service, the design flaw is going to be the only item up for discussion, which again, will be summarily judged and covered under the boilerplate contract which generally has set recourse and dollar values associated with it. (normally around $250 range).
 
This are clearly design issues with the 3rd party hardware, both the Enviaslink and Ipdatatel unit....both not UL listed, not a FW bug.

 
Alarm Relay is the one that provided me with the CBAT as well as programming it. In California, boiler plate language designed to limit liability doesn't apply when it comes to gross negligence. Now that Alarm Relay knows about this issue, I'm sure they are taking steps to notify their customers. 

 

[sorka]

The best solution really is the TG-1 Express.  It is UL Listed so Del is happy, but more importantly its ONLY cellular.  In other-words, it doesn't need any logic to decide between IP or cellular.  

 
That's what I have with my CBAT now if I unplugged the lan cable and let it go only over cellular and the response is pretty good. The remote fob app is a little slower over cellular. I'm about 500 feet from a Verizon cell tower. But I wanted dual path because even Verizon goes down once or twice a year. Comcast is more like several dozen times a year.

 

[Del91574]

Alarm Relay is the one that provided me with the CBAT as well as programming it. In California, boiler plate language designed to limit liability doesn't apply when it comes to gross negligence. Now that Alarm Relay knows about this issue, I'm sure they are taking steps to notify their customers. 

If that's what you believe, sure. It's still going to be a summary judgement and doubtful there's going to be any notice by them. Communications routing is specifically addressed in all monitoring and 3rd party agreements. Like I said, I'm also a dealer and have yet to hear a peep from Ipdatatel. Read into that what you want.
 
As far as what device, there's plenty of cellular or what have you out there compatible with all carriers, IE: Uplink has CDMA and 3G/4G units, as do many others. The issue that is being described is AR is only recommending what they can out of a menu of a handful of devices.
 
The issue with the BAT is a design flaw in how they determine their system is up vs. the other dual (or more) path devices out there.

 

[sorka]

If that's what you believe, sure. It's still going to be a summary judgement and doubtful there's going to be any notice by them. Communications routing is specifically addressed in all monitoring and 3rd party agreements. Like I said, I'm also a dealer and have yet to hear a peep from Ipdatatel. Read into that what you want.
 
As far as what device, there's plenty of cellular or what have you out there compatible with all carriers, IE: Uplink has CDMA and 3G/4G units, as do many others. The issue that is being described is AR is only recommending what they can out of a menu of a handful of devices.
 
The issue with the BAT is a design flaw in how they determine their system is up vs. the other dual (or more) path devices out there.

 
I suspect they don't have a watch dog that pings the service so that it can properly switch over within x seconds after the IP path to the service is cut off. They did implement some sort of fix but it appears that what they did was simply fallback to cellular after x number of failed attempts to send an actual alarm notification and it also appears they don't stay on cellular after rather they start all over with each message down the IP path. 

 

[madas]

That is not the case for mine.  subsequent messages seem to go directly out cellular after the one-time discovery delay.  In the alarmdealer site do you see the "Connection Changed to CDMA" message?