Existing Alarm & Automation Options

[signal15]

You can use a Wiznet wifi->serial adapter.  The NX plugin for Vera supports IP from the reading that I did.  No wires.
 
As for wireless being insecure... it's as secure as you configure it.  I guarantee you that WPA2 is going to have stronger encryption than whatever method HAI is using.  But, for wifi, there are way more tools out there to break it, and more knowledge about it.  Realistically, it's a question of motivation.  If you have decent security on your wifi network, no one is gonna spend a ton of time on it.  They are more likely to kick down your door and do a smash and grab.  Unless you have a vault full of gold or have a price on your head from Mexican drug lords, it's very unlikely that using wifi is going to be your downfall.  Plus, the Vera Lite is wired, not wireless.  And the lack of wireless is the only difference from the more expensive model.
 
What do you do about someone using a $35 cellular jammer from dx.com and cutting your phone and internet before kicking down the door?  There are risks everywhere.

 

[video321]

I have a Vera, but don't use any door locks and it doesn't store alarm codes. My WiFi is 64 random characters. My weakest link is the front door!

 

[pete_c]

You might also be able to utilize your telephone wires building a kind of ad hoc on the wire network.  I've heard "stories" that it does work except it will not give you the performance of cat5e. 
 
You could do a test though as you are not utilizing your telephone wiring.  Just crimp an RJ-45 on the alarm panel telephone wire and the other side of it and see what happens.  It'll either work or not work.  Its pins 1,2,3 & 6. You will not have the twisted pairs as designated in Cat5e; but you will have 4 wires and you may get some 4-5 Mb out of it.  Make sure they are not connected to anything else.  There are also telephone to RJ-45 baluns you can purchase.

 

[TaterTot]

You might also be able to utilize your telephone wires building a kind of ad hoc on the wire network.  I've heard "stories" that it does work except it will not give you the performance of cat5e. 
 
You could do a test though as you are not utilizing your telephone wiring.  Just crimp an RJ-45 on the alarm panel telephone wire and the other side of it and see what happens.  It'll either work or not work.  Its pins 1,2,3 & 6. You will not have the twisted pairs as designated in Cat5e; but you will have 4 wires and you may get some 4-5 Mb out of it.  Make sure they are not connected to anything else.  There are also telephone to RJ-45 baluns you can purchase.

 
If I can just use a universal ethernet/wifi adapter as someone else mentioned, then I am just going to do that instead of messing around with the telephone wiring.
 
I have not gotten a solid answer yet, but I am guessing one of those universal adapters will work on a Elk or HAI panel...

 

[signal15]

Or you can buy a cheap wifi router that will run DD-WRT, join your wireless network with it, and use it as a wireless "extender".  

 

[tmbrown97]

Check out this little thing:
http://www.frys.com/product/6980167?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
 
It's quite handy - I picked one up a few months ago to turn a wired camera wireless and it's been working great - for $20 you can't go wrong; it's low powered enough that it runs off USB (includes a USB to AC adapter but during testing I powered it off my laptop's USB port) and it has a lot of available options, including wired to wireless bridge, full router, wifi extender, etc - would also make a great addition to a road warrior's bag (I carry an Airport Express for those hotels with only wired connections or that charge per device).  It would turn your panel and any other device in your home into a Wireless device just fine.
 
Otherwise if you want to use the telephone wiring and *do it right* then that's totally doable too - this kit:
StarTech.com 10/100 VDSL2 Ethernet Extender Kit over Single Pair Wire - 1km
lets you use 1 pair of Cat3 non twisted pair to go quite a distance; around your home or even out to a shed/workshop/garage with the security and reliability of a totally wired network... it does cost more, but for the security conscious it may be worth it.

 

[pete_c]

The issues here appear to be more of what can be done totally non invasively to an existing infrastructure and still be able to provide some life saftey stuff. 
 
Personally I would just learn your existing system and reconfigure it to some low cost $8 / month alarm company using a wireless cellular connection and be done with it. 
 
It will involve a bit of manual efforts and that said you could also just hire a professional and pay for said efforts.

 

[TaterTot]

I use the existing alarm every day/night, but it is not monitored.... it works fine... Right this second, I could throw a cellular backup on my existing setup
and have it monitored for "$8/month".... that is not the issue...
 
The issue is that I want some sort of setup that allows me to have the automation and security together (like the Elk or HAI panels), but do to the layout of the house there is literally no way to run additional wiring....
 
I am an ECE and write programming for a living, so a little wiring/programming is right up my alley... BUT I am brand new to all of this and there is alot of info out there and I just want to make sure I am going in the right direction...

 

[TaterTot]

Now that I have had a little more time to absorb some of the options and equipment out there, I have a few additional questions/concerns:

#1: If I go with a HAI panel then I would really like to have a touch screen (OmniTouch 5.7) where my existing keypad is. →  However, it has to work with the wiring that is already there for my old keypad (NetworX Series NX-1300E LED Keypad). It looks like it is a 3 wire setup (Data, COM, POS), but there are 4 wires actually there (only 3 of them being used). Will this setup work or is there another panel that will? What are my options here...
 
#2: I really want the ability to control everything via the internet and my Android phone and have email alerts. → There is no wired ethernet available at the panel, but there is a solid Wifi (N) signal (this issue may be resolved since others have commented that a wired/wireless adapter should work). Is there anything additional I need for this (is a server necessary for email alerts)?

#3: I could really care less about the lighting controls, but I really want to have some of the other type of wireless controls. Like door locks, wireless thermostat, garage door sensors/opener, and maybe 1 or 2 appliance controls (lets assume Zwave since I know they make compatible door locks)  → Since the location of the panel is in the far end of the house (far away from everything that I want wirelessly controlled), am I going to be forced in install lighting control to create a proper network that will extend the length of the house or will I just use repeaters or what are my options here? My wife has already told me that she hates the square (rocker style) light switches, so I would rather go another route...

#4: If we assume I am going to go with HAI, then I know I will need the panel, a cellular connection device, a keypad/touchscreen, a wired to Wifi adapter (see previous posts), and various wireless hardware. → Is there any additional equipment that I am missing here (either vital or things that would be nice to have)? I have read about some Z-Wave interface or controller, but is that needed with the HAI panel? Also, is there anything special needed for the door locks since they run encryption? Are there any special software or cables or anything else that I might need?


I went and checked and I have a NetworX NX-6V2 alarm panel if that makes any difference. And it looks like there is no telephone wiring and the smoke detectors are not even hooked up...

 

[picta]

#1 OmniTouch requires cat5 wire, the basic HAI keypad needs 4 wires. So if you only got 3 conductors at your current keypad, it may not work. Many HAI owners actually use iPads with Haiku instead of panel keypads, but Haiku runs on mac OS. You can also use snaplink app as your main keypad and install a hardwired keypad right next to the panel for programming functions.
 
#2 The wifi adaptor should suffice
 
#3/4 For zwave to work you'll need a minimum number of devices to create a mesh. These should be "beaming" devices to pass data to the locks. If you decide on zwave, you'll need a Leviton control module VRC0P and Vizia Installer Tool to program the network. If you want inconspicuous devices, you can use outlets. For additional security sensors you can add a HAI or GE wireless reciever to the OP.

 

[TaterTot]

#1 OmniTouch requires cat5 wire, the basic HAI keypad needs 4 wires. So if you only got 3 conductors at your current keypad, it may not work. Many HAI owners actually use iPads with Haiku instead of panel keypads, but Haiku runs on mac OS. You can also use snaplink app as your main keypad and install a hardwired keypad right next to the panel for programming functions.
 
#2 The wifi adaptor should suffice
 
#3/4 For zwave to work you'll need a minimum number of devices to create a mesh. These should be "beaming" devices to pass data to the locks. If you decide on zwave, you'll need a Leviton control module VRC0P and Vizia Installer Tool to program the network. If you want inconspicuous devices, you can use outlets. For additional security sensors you can add a HAI or GE wireless reciever to the OP.

Thanks for the response!

As far as the OmniTouch goes, I thought I saw in the installation manual where it would work with 4 wires. I thought you only needed cat5 if you were using a touch screen hub. I could be reading it incorrectly, but I will see if I can post up a link.

 

[trmitche]

Thanks for the response!

As far as the OmniTouch goes, I thought I saw in the installation manual where it would work with 4 wires. I thought you only needed cat5 if you were using a touch screen hub. I could be reading it incorrectly, but I will see if I can post up a link.

 
 You have read correctly.  Only need Cat5 if you're running OG 5.7 screens with the Touchscreen/Video hub, *and* want to view analog cameras (connected to the analog pass-throughs of said hub) within the default 5.7 user interface.
 
It's a real shame you don't have CAT5 to the keypad locations, since then you could use the 5.7*e* PoE screen, which has a much better-looking, more customize-able user interface, which can display IP camera feeds over the network. and can be used in a variety of different UI's/configurations, created using the Automation Studio interface customization software.  However, your wiring situation would make PoE slightly more challenging.  You may even need to to research EoP instead.    
 
I feel your pain, having automated a home with an atrium/center-courtyard, without attic access.  I was luckily able to locate an Elk M1Gold and all my IP and other hardware into the cabinet above the washer in the laundry room, which was dead-center of the house.  Had to go with all wireless security sensors though (no security pre-wiring, and wireless sensors are much more expensive.  So... your overall wiring situation could definitely be worse.
 
 
If you go with an HAI OmniPro II or an Elk M1Gold combo security automation panels, then power-line solutions like UPB for lighting and RF Zwave/Zigbee) for thermostats/door locks will likely end up being your path forward, assuming you want to do it "right" to the extent possible given your wiring situation and budget.  IMO the difference between and HAI/Elk versus a GE panel with a Vera/Lite.etc, is night and day, and the relative pricing of each solution reflects that, with good reason.  Ultimately it's just a question of whether you want to to truly geek out with this (HAI/Elk), or just dabble in your spare time while accepting relatively lesser performance/reliability and browser-based user interfaces (no offense meant to Vera users or similar, they're wonderful for the price-point.)

 

[Neurorad]

'Absolutely no way to run new wires'.
 
If you have a hammer, and a drill, you can run new cables.  It's very easy.
 
Maybe I missed the reasoning?
 
What part of the country are you in?

 

[TaterTot]

'Absolutely no way to run new wires'.
 
If you have a hammer, and a drill, you can run new cables.  It's very easy.
 
Maybe I missed the reasoning?
 
What part of the country are you in?

 
Wow thanks.... this post was helpful.... :huh:
 
I should have said "No way to run new wires without sheetrock, paint work, and it being a big pain in the ass"...
 
 

 You have read correctly.  Only need Cat5 if you're running OG 5.7 screens with the Touchscreen/Video hub, *and* want to view analog cameras (connected to the analog pass-throughs of said hub) within the default 5.7 user interface.
 
It's a real shame you don't have CAT5 to the keypad locations, since then you could use the 5.7*e* PoE screen, which has a much better-looking, more customize-able user interface, which can display IP camera feeds over the network. and can be used in a variety of different UI's/configurations, created using the Automation Studio interface customization software.  However, your wiring situation would make PoE slightly more challenging.  You may even need to to research EoP instead.    
 
I feel your pain, having automated a home with an atrium/center-courtyard, without attic access.  I was luckily able to locate an Elk M1Gold and all my IP and other hardware into the cabinet above the washer in the laundry room, which was dead-center of the house.  Had to go with all wireless security sensors though (no security pre-wiring, and wireless sensors are much more expensive.  So... your overall wiring situation could definitely be worse.
 
 
If you go with an HAI OmniPro II or an Elk M1Gold combo security automation panels, then power-line solutions like UPB for lighting and RF Zwave/Zigbee) for thermostats/door locks will likely end up being your path forward, assuming you want to do it "right" to the extent possible given your wiring situation and budget.  IMO the difference between and HAI/Elk versus a GE panel with a Vera/Lite.etc, is night and day, and the relative pricing of each solution reflects that, with good reason.  Ultimately it's just a question of whether you want to to truly geek out with this (HAI/Elk), or just dabble in your spare time while accepting relatively lesser performance/reliability and browser-based user interfaces (no offense meant to Vera users or similar, they're wonderful for the price-point.)

 
Thanks for the confirmation on the wiring for the OmniTouch.
 
I am in your same siuation with one half of the house split from the other due to a large multi-level great room. That on top of it being a 2 story house in the first place makes running any kind of wiring a huge pain. I think my total attic access/storage space in the whole house is about 8'x5' :blink:
 
The EoP is something I am not real famaliar with so I will have to look that up. At the very least, I could put a plain keypad where the existing one is and put a OmniToucb in the bedroom using cat5 (Since the alarm panel and bedroom are right next to each other)...

 

[Neurorad]

Seriously, there are ways to run new cables without being very disruptive.  Crawlspace below or attic above is of course very helpful, but not essential.
 
Painting is the biggest obstacle; drywall repair is very cheap.  
 
Often, the cables can be run without cutting any drywall, if there are baseboards.  Running the cables behind baseboards and door/window trim is pretty straightforward, and often the only repair work required is some new caulk to cover the caulk that was cut.  If you have baseboards, I doubt any drywall would need to be cut, and no painting needed.
 
But I do understand.  We have a 2 story great room where running cables is a definite challenge.  I don't want to have to pay to repaint the giant room and all adjoining, contiguous rooms.  I'll reposition a keypad (from switch height to eye height) when it comes time to paint that great room.