Finally ready to do the install

[jlokanis]

Only 5 years late...

(Built the house at the same time as the twins were born and started an new job. The multi-year honey-do list has finally dwindled to the point where I can do some serious work in the wiring closet)

So, I dug out all the gear I bought (with the best intentions) 5 years ago. Now I need to be sure it is all still usable and up to date before I hook it all up. Here is what I got:

Elk M1 Gold
Elk serial port exp (2)
Elk Ethernet exp.
Thermostat (serial interface, forgot the brand)
Several Insteon V2 dimmers, relays
A few Insteon Icon relays.
The basic Insteon started pack (PLMs)
Insteon USB interface.

The goal: Get the security and lighting automation hooked up and working together. I would like to control everything via web/iPhone/iPad.

The problems:
1. I know there was an issue with some of the early Insteon switches causing flicker when commands were sent. Can I fix my exisiting switches (replace a cap or something) or can I get Smarthome to trade them in? Or am I screwed?
2. I know I likely need to upgrade to the dual band Insteon setup. What do I (realistically) need?
3. I see some combo packages on Smarthome for Elk+Insteon. Is that the right setup or is there a better way to get control via Ethernet interface?
4. Are there a bunch of firmware updates I need to do? What has changed over the last 5 years?

thanks for pointing me in any direction (hopefully the right one) on this stuff. I need to get back up to speed so I an take advantage of the small window of time before another project comes along that takes priority.

-John

 

[firstone]

1. I don't know anything about flicker issue but there was a problem with microswitches in some switchlinc devices. The warranty has been extended for that particular issue. Call them and they'll be able to tell you if you're covered.

2. You will most likely need at least 2 dual-band devices. One on each phase. It could be either new dual-band access points. Or any other devices. APs are a better choice since they might require different position in the house. In practice you might need more than 2 dual-band devices. I have 4 and it's still not 100% reliable. It depends on your particular set up.

3. I don't own Elk or know much about it, but Isy is absolutely great. It's expensive but the support is second to none. You can get most of the same functionality with software but Isy is probably the easiest and fastest way to get everything working.

4. Most (if not all) smarthome devices are not firmware upgradable. Latest devices would have I2 support. Your devices might or might not be I2 compatible.
.

 

[tmbrown97]

For your Elk products, you're fine - they actually haven't really changed with the exception of some new keypad options and more expandability... but everythign you bought back then should work just fine. Just get everything enrolled and go through all the firmware/bootloader updates to get it current.

For Insteon, you're best getting feedback from the insteon people here (I'm a UPB guy) - but most people do go with the ISY. It's costly, but apparently makes the whole thing so much easier - and they just released Elk support which means you can do your more advanced rules on that - the people who use it swear by it.

 

[jlokanis]

I have the old PLMs with the RF link. I was told that these were needed to communicate across different legs of the 3 phase power that comes into the house. Do I still need these?

I am thinking of getting the ISY Pro with the dual band PLM (on sale now at SM for less than the non-PRO version)

If I just add some dual band dimmers, would I be all set?

Also, i have be converting my bulbs to CFLs the last few years. Will the dimmers still work or am I screwed?

thanks for the replies!

 

[oberkc]

3 phase power that comes into the house

You have three-phase power?!

I have the old PLMs with the RF link.

I think these are generally considered obsolete for newer devices. I recall that this has something to do with I2 messaging options of the newer insteon devices. Since your other devices are of the same era, you may be fine for now. If you ever get some RF remotes or such, you may be compelled to upgrade to "access points", because, unlike RFLincs, access points also act as the bridge between wireless devices and the powerline.

Do I still need these?

Yes, you still need something to communicate between the legs of your power supply.

If I just add some dual band dimmers, would I be all set?

This may be enough to replace the RFLincs, but only if you have the flexibility to put one dual-band device on each leg of your household power supply. Also, those two must be within RF range of each other.

Also, i have be converting my bulbs to CFLs the last few years. Will the dimmers still work or am I screwed?

Certainly, the CFL bulbs must be of the dimmable variety. While the insteon devices are generally rated for incandescent only, I believe you will find that they dim CFLs just fine (at least by CFL standards). The larger concern, however, is that some CFLs can generate noise that can interfere with insteon communication.

In my house, I use CFLs but only in non-dimming situation. Dimmers get incandenscent or LED. I have found that my insteon system works pretty well like this.

Have fun! Check out the smarthome forums and universal devices forum for a more detailed and thorough response.

 

[jlokanis]

Thanks for the responses. Do you know if the ISY can trigger lights based on alarms from the Elk? For instance, I plan to interface my smoke detectors to my Elk so I can get a trigger when they are set off. I would like to have the ISY turn on all the lights at 100% when this happens.
Also, I would like to turn on lights if the alarm system is triggered by a door/window/motion sensor.
Finally, I would like to be able to send commands to the ISY to control lights from external applications. Do you know if there is an API interface for the ISY available via ethernet?

 

[wuench]

For insteon related issues I check versions against this site. You can call SH and see what they say, it won't hurt.

http://www.madrepori...device_list.htm

Yes, With the new ISY Elk module the ISY can now trigger lights on alarm, zone states, etc.

And the ISY has a couple of different HTTP based interfaces (web service and REST), they are all very good and well documented. They even support UPNP so your program can automatically find the ISY on the network and download all the lighting info. I wrote the ISY driver for CQC, they did a great job and provide great support for thier API's. You can also interface with the Elk over a TCP socket and control it with ASCII commands, again well documented and complete.

For Insteon+ELK, ISY is definitely the way to go.

 

[jlokanis]

Well, looks like my older Insteon switches are going to cause me some grief. Since they are so old, they all suffer from the load flicker issue. And since I failed to swap them out in the 2 year warranty period, I am SOL. Any ideas?

 

[firstone]

Well, looks like my older Insteon switches are going to cause me some grief. Since they are so old, they all suffer from the load flicker issue. And since I failed to swap them out in the 2 year warranty period, I am SOL. Any ideas?

Well, I don't know if it's an ethical thing to do but if you tell them you have problems with microswitches, they might still be able to replace them. I know the warranty was increased on those to either 5 or 7 years. I think anything under certain hardware revision can have that issue. Don't remember exact version. Either 3.1 or 3.3. Basically the switch fails to either turn on or off.

As far as flicker is concerned, I've had quite a few of those old switches - I'm one of the first Insteon users - and never had any flicker issue. I've had plenty of microswitch problems though and since then exchanged them. But basically feel free to try them, don't discard them just because you've read about some problem on the internet.

Also, as far as your earlier question about getting a few dual-link devices to connect phases, Access points are a better choice for several reasons:

1. APs have the functionality to tell you if they're on the same or different leg.
2. APs have the functionality to tell you if they're out of wireless range.
3. AP is needed if you want to use RF only device, such as remote, motion detector or thermostat adapter.

So, yes, you can replace APs with other dual-link devices but you will need to make sure that they're on different legs and not out of wireless range. And even then, they might not be in optimal location and might have to be moved if you notice signal problems.

 

[jlokanis]

Thanks for the tips. I did have the flicker problem with 2 switches in the old house. I had intended to replace them but now it is too late. Also have read that you can avoid the flicker issue if you only use the older switches as secondary linked switches in a 3 way setup. Since I have a need for many of these, I could just use the old ones there.
It is my understanding that the dual band dimmers act as access points. If I use several of those plus the interface that comes with the ISY, I should be all set and not need the SingnalLinc devices at all, right?

I did not know about the microswitch issue. I will have to consider that.

Finally, I have 3 original LampLincs. Any issues with those I should be aware of before putting them into use?

 

[firstone]

It is my understanding that the dual band dimmers act as access points. If I use several of those plus the interface that comes with the ISY, I should be all set and not need the SingnalLinc devices at all, right?

That is correct. Although it's largely trial and error. Even with AP tools.

Finally, I have 3 original LampLincs. Any issues with those I should be aware of before putting them into use?

There is no issue per se although there is some bug that causes them to burn. I've been using them for a while. Then one burned. I've replaced it with an identical unit. And that one burned in a week. I've since replaced it with the new dual-band model and it's been fine since. Just to be clear, when I say burned, I mean it just stopped responding. Not physically caught fire and burned.