HAI/Leviton UPB Serial Connector Wiring

[pete_c]

@JonW; I saw it and still do not understand why the PCS PIM serial port is unique?
 
Here only have a 9 pin serial SA PIM so its probably not work playing with if the PCS PIM is different.
 
Did a bit of virtual serial port diagnostic testing with the HAI PIM plugged into the Quatech server and me accessing the box in my home office.
 

 
Takes 5 minutes to set this up.  I have an LED RS-232 9 pin tester but cannot find it this morning. I used this stuff when I configured my GPS/PPS serial cable for my NTP server running on PFSense.  The serial cable is around 75 feet from the basement to the attic GPS.  It is a custom serial port / cable connection as the PPS signal is on the DCD pin.
 
I used it again to split my Davis weather station console to two such that I could test two weather applications.  (didn't work though).  It does work with an Upstart to PIM connection.
 
I use a couple of old GPS programs.  You can see relating to the HAI serial PM DSR/CTS LEDs are always on.
Change the file extensions from PDF to ZIP then unzip.
 
1 - download and run XPort.  XPort is a virtual serial port splitter.  Note that connection is at 4800 baud. Ignore the GPS messages.
 
XPort download.
 
2 - download and run View attachment SerialPortLEDs.pdf on second serial port configured.
 
3 - connect Upstart to first serial port configured.
 
Watch the virtual LEDs.

 

[JonW]

@JonW; I saw it and still do not understand why the PCS PIM serial port is unique?

 
Pretty sure the SAI PIM is the same way and it's only the HAI PIM that does not require 5V on the DTR line.  Having DTR on the "terminal" device is standard, but some embedded systems like the HAI panels and my earlier HomeVision did not implement it that way.  They both only require 3 wires for serial comm - send, receive and ground.  HAI had to make their own PIM to not require DTR since the panel serial port couldn't provide the signal.
 
 
On Page 23 of the PDF linked below, is this info:
 
NOTE: The PIM-R requires positive voltage (anywhere from +5V to +12V) supplied on the DTR line. The PIM-R does not use the DTR line for the normal flow control purposes it was intended for by RS-232. The serial interface of the PIM-R contains two opto-isolator circuits that need to be powered by an isolated dual voltage power supply. Rather than add an isolated power supply inside of the PIM-R we require the DTE to supply the positive and negative voltages. The positive voltage is obtained from pin 4 (DTR). All PC’s and laptops normally keep pin 4 in the “Space (positive voltage)” state. The negative voltage is derived from pin 3 (TD) which is normally in the “Mark (negative voltage)” state. A special charge pump circuit within the PIM maintains the negative voltage during the brief periods when the TD signal goes to the “Space (positive voltage)” state.
 
http://www.automatedoutlet.com/site/learning_center/pcs/docs/PimComm1.6.pdf

 

[ano]

So I guess I'm confused again because every diagram seems to be different than the one before.  Lets talk in the simplest terms. 
 
The Data Communications Equipment (DCE) is the HAI panel.
The Data Terminal Equipment (DTE) is the UPB PIM.
 
So grounds are connect together, transmit goes to receive, and receive goes to transmit.
Everyone good so far?
 
So on the HAI side we have two wires left, +12v, and DCD according to Pete's diagram above.
Typically this signal goes high to tell the Computer/HAI panel the modem/PIM is ready.
 
I would think, the +12v from the HAI panel would need to go to DTR on the PIM, correct?
It probably wouldn't hurt to connect +12V on the panel to DCD on the panel? Correct?
 
I don't know if the panel looks for this, but it can't hurt.
 
So does that sound correct?  TX to RC, RC to TX,  +12V from panel to DCD on panel AND DTR on the PIM? 

 

[pete_c]

Thank you Jon.

 

[ano]

Pretty sure the SAI PIM is the same way and it's only the HAI PIM that does not require 5V on the DTR line.  Having DTR on the "terminal" device is standard, but some embedded systems like the HAI panels and my earlier HomeVision did not implement it that way.  They both only require 3 wires for serial comm - send, receive and ground.  HAI had to make their own PIM to not require DTR since the panel serial port couldn't provide the signal.
 
 
On Page 23 of the PDF linked below, is this info:
 
NOTE: The PIM-R requires positive voltage (anywhere from +5V to +12V) supplied on the DTR line. The PIM-R does not use the DTR line for the normal flow control purposes it was intended for by RS-232. The serial interface of the PIM-R contains two opto-isolator circuits that need to be powered by an isolated dual voltage power supply. Rather than add an isolated power supply inside of the PIM-R we require the DTE to supply the positive and negative voltages. The positive voltage is obtained from pin 4 (DTR). All PC’s and laptops normally keep pin 4 in the “Space (positive voltage)” state. The negative voltage is derived from pin 3 (TD) which is normally in the “Mark (negative voltage)” state. A special charge pump circuit within the PIM maintains the negative voltage during the brief periods when the TD signal goes to the “Space (positive voltage)” state.
 
http://www.automatedoutlet.com/site/learning_center/pcs/docs/PimComm1.6.pdf

Jon that is a good find. Thanks.  So +12V from panel to DTR on the PIM, correct?  It says 5V - 12V works. The PIM plugs into the wall, you'd think they can get their power from that, but i guess not.

 

[pete_c]

I am not going to write anything until I check it with my SA RS-232 PIM.  The proof will be in the pudding.
 
I put the testing pieces on my workbench yesterday. 

 

[JonW]

The Data Communications Equipment (DCE) is the HAI panel.
The Data Terminal Equipment (DTE) is the UPB PIM.

 
Actually you have the DCE and DTE backwards.  The panel is the DTE and the PIM is the DCE.
 
I would think you could use the 12V signal from the HAI panel to drive the DTR line on the PIM, but the fact that HAI went out of their way to make their own PIM to not utilize that voltage concerns me.  Is it possible that the 12V line is not clean or stable enough or could surge?  That I don't know, but they obviously chose a reason to make their own PIM that deviated from PCS's standard.
 
If you're going to try this, just wire the 12V+ from the panel to DTR on the PIM.  Don't feed anything to DCD.

 

[pete_c]

Curious Ano.  Why are you wanting to connect a PCS serial PIM to the HAI OPII panel?  I didn't ask before. 
 
I have PCS UPB switches here along with one PCS phase coupler that I no longer use.  Top notch stuff.
 
That said my HAI UPB PIM(s) work fine with the OPII panel.  Well that and the HAI repeater (which looks the same as the PCS repeater).

 

[pete_c]

Testing making and using a 4 wire RJ-11 jack as I do not want to touch the 12VDC on the OmniPro 2 panel.

Double checking (the RS-232 ports are labeled which helps) - drawing this on a piece of paper

RS-232 9 pin male connector -note that the colors do not mean anything and this will probably not work and it is what I see as colors which are probably wrong anyways.

RS-232 pin 1 - not used
RS-232 pin 2 - yellow - RX
RS-232 pin 3 - black -TX
RS-232 pin 4 - blue - DTR = = > going to DCD on RJ11
RS-232 pin 5 - green -Ground
Pins 6-9 not used.

RJ-11 4 pins - left to right its yellow, red, brown and black

RJ11 pin 1 - yellow - ground
RJ11 pin 2 - red - DCD
RJ11 pin 3 - brown - TX
RJ11 pin 4 - black - RX

Rechecking the above and my hand drawing.

Checked and plugged in RJ-11 into 3rd port (where HAI PIM was plugged in with RJ-12)

Plugged in RS-232 male side to female RS232 port on SA UPB PIM.  The UPB serial PIM is plugged in to the outlet adjacent to the fuse panel and and the HAI UPB and it is on a different circuit breaker.


Testing in my home office.  
 
Testing via software turning on and off my UPB office lighting via panel and watching via upstart and vice versa.

Checking again with PCA to validate that it is configured as seen and it is serial port 3 is configured as UPB.

Running Upstart connected to HAI Serial PIM via Quatech serial server just to look at the bottom signal bar.

Using the Homeseer 2 HAI plugin. Turned on and off my office lights.

Works.

Note this is using 4 wires and an RJ-11.  Snaps right in to the HAI port - it is a snug fit.

I used little shards of painter's tape to cover up the wires which are just hand twisted.  Not using any jumper cables. None of the colors match of the four wires.
 
Personally I would make up a new RJ-12 cable / end and crimp only the four center leads.  On the RS-232 side just connect the 4 wires as mentioned above.  IE: RX, TX, Ground and DTR (to DCD on the 4 wire RJ-12 side). 
 
Reconnected HAI PIM to OPII panel and checked it with Homeseer 2 serial connection plugin.  Worked fine.
 
Here is a picture of my test setup.  Don't laugh.
 

 

[ano]

Curious Ano.  Why are you wanting to connect a PCS serial PIM to the HAI OPII panel?  I didn't ask before. 
 
I have PCS UPB switches here along with one PCS phase coupler that I no longer use.  Top notch stuff.
 
That said my HAI UPB PIM(s) work fine with the OPII panel.  Well that and the HAI repeater (which looks the same as the PCS repeater).

We'll that is a good question actually. So I sold a home and with it went the old HAI PIM and an OMNI Lte I installed.  In the new home I was going to use a PCS PIM because I had a few of them lying around. They are the strongest ones in terms of signal, but I also have a PCS repeater, so its a bit of overkill.  Anyway, in the mean time, I did buy another HAI PIM ($75 bucks) just because they work without hassle, so the PCS PIM was just an experiment to see if it would work. (In the past it never has, probably because of the DTR.) 
 
I myself am not terribly worried about using the HAI +12V from the serial port, and personally I wouldn't read much into if the HAI PIM uses it or not.  After seeing many HAI products through the years, my guess why they didn't use it, was because the intern at HAI who designed it that week probably didn't even know the serial port provided +12V. :rofl: I'm still trying to put my hands around how they could sell the UPB 35A00-1CFL 600W CFL/LED Dimmer for many years with a timer feature that flat out doesn't work, and they know it doesn't work.

 

[pete_c]

Yup; I never seen 12VDC on an RS-232 port.  Looking though over the years at the RJ12/45 for serial connectivity it was never really much standardized and mostly willy nilly proprietary stuff.
 
For my Homeseer serial / USB port expansion of stuff I used mostly those RJ45 to RS-232 to cat5e to bring the cables from the hardware to the Digi Edgeports to the Digi USB hubs.  From the Digi USB hubs its only one cable to the "server" room which makes for an easy plug n play of hardware.
I do have RS-232 runs to the attic and garage on the other side of the house.  Its been a few years now and everything is working fine. 
 
Initially here started mostly with PCS switches because of their warranty; then went to HAI because of the OmniPro II and finally to SA for whatever reasons.  So its a hodgepodge of switches today but mostly now SA.  No one here stares at the wall switches and my wife has learned and like the toggle scenes on the multitoggle switches using it more than me.
 
 
 
Well now you know its just a simple 4 wire connection. 

 

[JonW]

No, you don't see 12V on serial ports because their levels are either 5V or 3.3V.  HAI puts 12V on the serial port for use with RS485.

 

[pete_c]

Thank-you JonW.

 

[ano]

No, you don't see 12V on serial ports because their levels are either 5V or 3.3V.  HAI puts 12V on the serial port for use with RS485.

Actually, I thought voltages could be as much as +/- 15V?
 
Thanks everyone.

 

[JonW]

Actually, I thought voltages could be as much as +/- 15V?
 
Thanks everyone.

Yes, you are correct that the signal voltages can be as high as 15V. Guess I was thinking mostly of microprocessor standards that utilize 3.3v & 5v. However, the HAI 12V line is a power supply line, not a signaling line and is there for RS485 use.