Having UPB Signal Troubles

[ccap]

Hello All,

I am having troubles with trying to get my HAI Omni Pro II to find and set up some of my switches. It looks like it cant see the sub panel that is in my bedroom closet because that is where most of the circuits that it is having trouble seeing.

When I originally used UPBStart software, it seems to find all the devices, but then again it is pulling from another circuit in the basement. My Omni is located in the attic. SHould I install a phase coupler in the sub panel and if so, can I do it myself? I have installed all my switches including three ways without a problem

Thanks
Chris

 

[AnthonyZ]

Tough to say. To install a phase coupler you have to get into the panel and add two (or piggy back) off two breakers. If you're ok with that, then yeah, you can do it. If you are over your head inside a panel, don't. If it's a sub, you may be able to kill power to it and then you'd theoretically be perfectly safe. Always err on the side of caution, though.

 

[SethP]

If you don't have a phase coupler, this could be your problem. I use a phase coupler plugged into my 220v dryer outlet, so nothing had to be done in the panel. If you go for the panel phase coupler, I strongly recommend an electrician for the job. It may not look too difficult, but it's definitely dangerous in there.

Seth

Hello All,

I am having troubles with trying to get my HAI Omni Pro II to find and set up some of my switches. It looks like it cant see the sub panel that is in my bedroom closet because that is where most of the circuits that it is having trouble seeing.

When I originally used UPBStart software, it seems to find all the devices, but then again it is pulling from another circuit in the basement. My Omni is located in the attic. SHould I install a phase coupler in the sub panel and if so, can I do it myself? I have installed all my switches including three ways without a problem

Thanks
Chris

 

[bfisher]

I use the dryer plug phase coupler as well. Not sure if it works in your setup, but it can't get much easier

 

[nightwalker]

I sure wish the so called experts would stop saying you don't need the phase coupler for UPB. It's more advertisment than fact i think. Sure there are some places that might get away without, but in the real world you'll do so much better with it installed. Depending on how many sub panels you have, you may need more than one, but one at the main panel is a must.

Weather you use the plug in or the wire in type, my personal preference is for wired in, but either way you'll have much better communication with one or the other installed.

 

[LightenUP]

I think all the above responses are spot on. Let me say this though, if for some strange circumstance noise becomes present, if you have a coupler installed it (the noise) will likely bleed to both phases. My experience shows a better improvement of the signal by doing a physical phase alignment rather than a coupler. Also, you are still able to keep the noise isolated to the other phase allowing the offending noise to become attenuated. Plus, there is no additional cost other than the labor of getting into the panel which you would have to do with a coupler anyways. Doing a phase alligment is not much more difficult but an electrician would be recomended for first timers.

 

[SethP]

Can you explain what a phase alignment is?

My experience shows a better improvement of the signal by doing a physical phase alignment rather than a coupler.

 

[heffneil]

I think all the above responses are spot on. Let me say this though, if for some strange circumstance noise becomes present, if you have a coupler installed it (the noise) will likely bleed to both phases. My experience shows a better improvement of the signal by doing a physical phase alignment rather than a coupler. Also, you are still able to keep the noise isolated to the other phase allowing the offending noise to become attenuated. Plus, there is no additional cost other than the labor of getting into the panel which you would have to do with a coupler anyways. Doing a phase alligment is not much more difficult but an electrician would be recomended for first timers.

What is a "Phase Alignment" ? I never heard of that? I am curious what it does and how you do one? I am fairly new to this so I guess what are common causes of noise along the electrical system.

Thanks,

Neil

 

[LightenUP]

It's simply moving the breaker location on the bus bar of the panel up or down one position.

In a breaker box you have two rows of breakers. If you have devices on the top breaker @ left , and you have a controller on the breaker just below that, they are out of phase with each other. So, by switching the second breaker to the third position leaving the top breaker alone you have just alligned them. Basically the phases are every other breaker all the way down the row, It goes A,B,A,B,A,B,A to the bottom then the next row repeats.

It will improve the signal when you do a comunications test more than a coupler.

I don't recomend moving the wires you actually should pull the breakers off instead so there will be little chance of using 14g wire in a 20amp breaker....BIG NO NO! As you turn a breaker off if you continue to push in that direction the breaker will come off from the center and is hinged on the sides. DON'T USE A SCREW DRIVER IN THE CENTER that's were the bus bar is and you don't want to get too close.

You'll get good at it will become a standard practice.

 

[heffneil]

It's simply moving the breaker location on the bus bar of the panel up or down one position.

In a breaker box you have two rows of breakers. If you have devices on the top breaker @ left , and you have a controller on the breaker just below that, they are out of phase with each other. So, by switching the second breaker to the third position leaving the top breaker alone you have just alligned them. Basically the phases are every other breaker all the way down the row, It goes A,B,A,B,A,B,A to the bottom then the next row repeats.

It will improve the signal when you do a comunications test more than a coupler.

I don't recomend moving the wires you actually should pull the breakers off instead so there will be little chance of using 14g wire in a 20amp breaker....BIG NO NO! As you turn a breaker off if you continue to push in that direction the breaker will come off from the center and is hinged on the sides. DON'T USE A SCREW DRIVER IN THE CENTER that's were the bus bar is and you don't want to get too close.

You'll get good at it will become a standard practice.

So you are suggesting putting all the controlled devices on the same phase? Thats not always so easy when you are controlling an entire house...

Neil

 

[SethP]

Definitely not possible for me. I have two breaker boxes that are full, plus a separate structure with its own power feed off the same transformer, so the UPB signals make it there no problem. I have many UPB devices across both phases in both locations. Phase coupler is absolutely necessary!

Note that PCS now makes an active split phase repeater that repeats signals on opposite phases, but not noise. It's $300, but if you have a noisy environment, probably well worth it.

Seth

So you are suggesting putting all the controlled devices on the same phase? Thats not always so easy when you are controlling an entire house...
Neil

 

[LightenUP]

I usually wouldn't do this for any device that reads above 20 Lesters in signal strength. I do this for the units that either can't be found or weak signals. The other time I do this is to try to make sure the noise is out of phase form the failing unit if possible. Granted for an entire home system this may not be very practical at all but if you do try it and find some impovement I hope you'll let us know about it.

 

[heffneil]

I usually wouldn't do this for any device that reads above 20 Lesters in signal strength. I do this for the units that either can't be found or weak signals. The other time I do this is to try to make sure the noise is out of phase form the failing unit if possible. Granted for an entire home system this may not be very practical at all but if you do try it and find some impovement I hope you'll let us know about it.

Are people able to communicate with devices in other phases when they don't have a phase coupler?

Neil

 

[LightenUP]

Absolutely, the signal comes back to the other phase on its return from the main service. It has to go further so the signal is diminished. The alignment will just shorten the path b/w point A ( the controller ) to B ( the receiver ).

 

[Event5]

Are people able to communicate with devices in other phases when they don't have a phase coupler?

Neil,

Unlike x10's 4 volts + signal, The robust, UPB signal is 40volts+ and can travel up to 2 miles on the wiring. Out to the transformer on the pole and back on the other phase. As LightnUP says the coupler shortens the travel improving the signal. It is generally suggested to use a coupler.

Dave