Help me compare UPB switches

[Jay M]

I am about to replace my X-10 with UPB.

I am having a hard time finding a clean feature list for teh different brands of UPB switches.

There is the:

Simply Automated US1140

PCS WS1D

HAI 35A00-1

What are the major differences?

The things that I have come to like about my Smart Home dimmers are:
preset dim level
adjustable ramp rate
one click ramp up to preset, or ramp down to off
double click fast on or off
programmable scenes

It was suggested in another thread that I buy one of each brand to see what feels the best.

I really do like the Simply Automated dimmer that has a half rocker on top and four buttons on the bottom.

thanks,
~Jay

 

[nightwalker]

Off the top of my head i can't think of much difference between those switches. The HAI 35A00-1 is a 600w model the Simply Automated US1140 is 900w and I forget the rating on the PCS unit. Beyond that as far as i know they will all have the same functions and get programmed with Upstart.

 

[lpott6]

The HAI and PCS will most likely be GEN 2 and SA will not. There is a different look and feel between the brands also including the color and brightness of the LEDs.

They all work well, just a mater of personal preference.

 

[pkoslow]

Just the same as everyone else is telling you... I find the biggest difference is just the look and feel of the switches.

I'm doing more with UPB now that the second generation devices are available as I never liked the turn-on delay of the original generation devices.

Here's a little demo box I put together that allows customers to see and feel the difference:

Right now it's got Insteon, RadioRA, HAI UPB Gen2 and SAI UPB GEN1. The turn on delay on the older GEN1 device is really noticable when you have them side-by-side like this.

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Jay M]

Thanks for the replies, that is very helpful.

What is the delay on the Gen 1 switches?

Is it slower than X10?

Another question: The Smart Home switches I have now make most bulbs ring when they are dim. Will these UPB switches help resuce that?

~Jay

 

[MikeB]

What is the delay on the Gen 1 switches?

Is it slower than X10?

It's VERY slow here on my gen 1 Simply Automated switches. You hit the switch, walk in and you're about 1/2 way through the room when the lights come on. This is with a load attached directly to the switch, so I'm not even talking communication delays.

I have some PCS gen 2 switches here still in the box I hope to install soon. They seem to be much quicker, though I haven't yet used them in a 'real life' scenario.

 

[Jay M]

What is the delay on the Gen 1 switches?

Is it slower than X10?

It's VERY slow here on my gen 1 Simply Automated switches. You hit the switch, walk in and you're about 1/2 way through the room when the lights come on. This is with a load attached directly to the switch, so I'm not even talking communication delays.

I have some PCS gen 2 switches here still in the box I hope to install soon. They seem to be much quicker, though I haven't yet used them in a 'real life' scenario.

WOW! I would consider that to be unusable. No wonder Automated Outlet has had them on sale for so long.

Does GEN II solve the problem?

~Jay

 

[pkoslow]

Yeah, the GEN II devices turn on quick enough now that the delay is barely noticeable. It's still not instant like the Insteon or Lutron switches, but it's close enough (especially if you have the lights set to fade up).

The turn on delay is what kept me from working with UPB in the past...

 

[gwww]

What is the delay on the Gen 1 switches?

Is it slower than X10?

It's VERY slow here on my gen 1 Simply Automated switches. You hit the switch, walk in and you're about 1/2 way through the room when the lights come on. This is with a load attached directly to the switch, so I'm not even talking communication delays.

I have some PCS gen 2 switches here still in the box I hope to install soon. They seem to be much quicker, though I haven't yet used them in a 'real life' scenario.

The SA switches newer than version 1.13 (which is probably most all of them now) have a programmable delay on the button press. Pre 1.13 switches only had a 750ms delay after the button press. Starting with 1.13 the delay is programmable down to as low as 300ms. Personally, I don't notice the delay with the new version.

Note that the delay is for the "double-click" timer. That is, the time to wait and see if the button is pressed again so that the switch knows to initiate a single-click command or a double-click command.

 

[RandyKnight]

What is the delay on the Gen 1 switches?

Is it slower than X10?

It's VERY slow here on my gen 1 Simply Automated switches. You hit the switch, walk in and you're about 1/2 way through the room when the lights come on. This is with a load attached directly to the switch, so I'm not even talking communication delays.

I have some PCS gen 2 switches here still in the box I hope to install soon. They seem to be much quicker, though I haven't yet used them in a 'real life' scenario.

The SA switches newer than version 1.13 (which is probably most all of them now) have a programmable delay on the button press. Pre 1.13 switches only had a 750ms delay after the button press. Starting with 1.13 the delay is programmable down to as low as 300ms. Personally, I don't notice the delay with the new version.

Note that the delay is for the "double-click" timer. That is, the time to wait and see if the button is pressed again so that the switch knows to initiate a single-click command or a double-click command.

The delay is the 90% of the reason I went Insteon in my new house. Couldn't stand it.

 

[upstatemike]

Why are the UPB folks so dead set against letting the switch start ramping for a single click while it is waiting to see if it needs to snap On for a double click? Why does it need to just do nothing during that time?

 

[MikeB]

The SA switches newer than version 1.13 (which is probably most all of them now) have a programmable delay on the button press. Pre 1.13 switches only had a 750ms delay after the button press. Starting with 1.13 the delay is programmable down to as low as 300ms. Personally, I don't notice the delay with the new version.

Note that the delay is for the "double-click" timer. That is, the time to wait and see if the button is pressed again so that the switch knows to initiate a single-click command or a double-click command.

My SA switches are model US1-40, with a rev sticker of v2.14 on the bottom. I'm running the latest UPStart (as of a month or so ago), and I can't find a setting anywhere to adjust the delay.

As for the double-tap being the reason - I've heard that before, but even when I double-tap I see the delay, so it doesn't make much sense to me. Even still - whatever the reason, it's a pretty bad design flaw in my opinion. I'm glad it was fixed in gen 2.

 

[LightenUP]

The main thing to seperate SA from the rest are the interchangable faceplates. You can add scenes at later dates then switch out the faceplate to gain more transmitions. Also the PCS multi buttons are NOT load barring switches.

GEN II has many improvements to the noise immunity but the delay, like the previous post describes, has been adjusted in the existing SA switches even though they are not technically GEN II.

WHEN GEN II for SA happens and I say WHEN, Simply Automated will most likely be the product of choice do to flexibility and cost.

 

[123]

... The Smart Home switches I have now make most bulbs ring when they are dim. Will these UPB switches help resuce that?
...

Try another brand of light bulb. I encountered the same phenomenon when using a SmartHome Keypadlinc (X10) to dim two incandescent bulbs. I changed the bulbs to Philips DuraMax and it went away. Apparently, it has something to do with the gauge of the filament wire.

 

[123]

... I find the biggest difference is just the look and feel of the switches.

Thanks for the comparative photo! I realize looks are subjective but I vote for the Smarthome Insteon and Lutron RadioRA switches. I'm using X10 Switchlincs and I like the brightness bar and night-light.