home automation mega poll, part III

[IVB]

I was actually considering restarting the poll, but only 3 new members signed up with the intention of voting for CQC, so those numbers are pretty accurate. I was surprised myself.

Now that is interesting. So even if you take out the 3 new members, CQC has twice as many votes as the next highest votegetter?

Dang. Considering that advanced DIY forums are typically first adopters and hence leading indicators of the future, that is promising for Dean...

 

[smee]

I was actually considering restarting the poll, but only 3 new members signed up with the intention of voting for CQC, so those numbers are pretty accurate. I was surprised myself.

Now that is interesting. So even if you take out the 3 new members, CQC has twice as many votes as the next highest votegetter?

Dang. Considering that advanced DIY forums are typically first adopters and hence leading indicators of the future, that is promising for Dean...

The fact that Dean posted on his board telling people to vote may have something to do with the vote for CQC being higher. Just the fact that people who might not come here often or otherwise wouldn't have voted have been encouraged to come and vote will affect it - they don't have to be new members. I don't have a problem with encouraging people to vote, unless they are trying to deliberately skew the results (say, if a large number of people joined just to vote).

Now, if Dean starts advertising "Voted most popular HA application on CocoonTech," I might have a problem with it .

I also think it's ok to combine the HS 1.x and 2.x votes together and treat them as a single number. In which case, CQC doesn't have quite as large a lead .

Given that there have only been 52 votes out of >1700 (?) CocoonTech members, I don't think it's too clear an indication yet of what is most used.

It looks like there are only about 250 members with 10 or more posts so I'm not sure how many of the 1700 I'd expect to vote.

 

[WayneW]

What this is showing is that all forum surveys are skewed. This might show what cocoontech users are using, not a comparison of one company to the other. Out of all the choices, CQC is probably the smallest market penetration of choices overall. But, very popular w/ cocoontech users.

Forums in general do not IMHO reflect the average user anyway. The more vocal and usually DIY / Hobbyists post on these forums. Nothing wrong with that, just what appears to be a fact.

It also is begining to appear to me that cocoontech is quickly becoming a place were folks not satisfied with Homeseer (specifically) post. And, because of timing with HS2 launch, many have converted to CQC.

The vote of CQC was really more cast when HS launched HS2 with more issues than their user community felt appropriate for a production launch. It's not about how many have just joined cocoontech to vote for CQC - that vote was cast a year ago with HS2 launch.

Definately not indicative of what is really going on with HA / HT software outside of cocoontech.

I look at the survey as really just a bit of trivia. What I do think it showcases is that Cocoontech is quickly becoming not the place to go for unbiased opinion. Something I hope Electron / BSR should be concerned about. I don't have an easy answer, but it should be of concern. Too much HS slamming has kept the HS enthusiasts away. That's really too bad since they probably have the highest level of expertise in their fold of the DIY community. Some really sharp and sharing folks are on the HS forum. It would be great if they were also attracted to visit cocoontech more often. I can definately see why they could care less and just stay on the HS forum.

Hopefully as folks move to HS2.1 (which all HS users should) there will be less negativity on cocoontech.

BTW, similar comments with MainLobby too.

The whole point of these polls is exactly to see what the CT community is using. Nothing more, nothing less and nobody every stated otherwise. I had no idea that CQC was as popular with CT users as it appears to be, but that may be skewed by the cross post.

Yes, this is a place that people not satisfied with HST can post and not worry about having a thread closed or posts deleted. CT offers that same freedom to all products (other than blatant spammers).

Personally, I doubt that CQC picked up that many disgruntled HS users at the time of the HS2 launch as I do not believe that CQC actually had a rules engine at that time. Now, CQC may have picked up some ex HS users after that time, but that is a much more complicated trend to resolve.

I resent your comment that CT is "quickly becoming not the place to go for unbiased opinion". As a user, I have my opinion and I am privileged to be able voice it here. As far as CT "management" (since they are volunteers), please defend your bias claim. How have they treated one vendor/user better than another? How have they not welcomed ANY vendor/user that wants to participate? If one product has more representatives here than another product, that is simply because birds-of-a-feather flock together, not because anybody has been biased against or excluded. If you are trying to make a generalization over a specific situation or vendor, remember it is HST that refused to provide a Pro-100 unit for CT to evaluate, not that CT refused to look at it.

 

[Dean Roddey]

I was wondering "hmmm, why the large numer of CQC votes?", then I saw THIS. You guys...

Well, for the record, I didn't ask people to sign up just to vote and artificially skew the result, though some may have. Some still might not have ever bothered to come over here and check this board out, and hopefully they will now stay and participate.

I just pointed people at the poll so that they'd be aware of it, and said that if they were Cocoontech members, that they should vote and make their choice known. That seems pretty straightforward and above board to me. If I was trying to be sneaky about it, I would have just PM'ed everyone, since I assume that plenty of people read this board and our board and would see my post.

I think that what it probably means more than anything else is just that our customers are happy customers and so they are motivated to make their choice known, and to help us get the word out, not a nefarious plan or anything. I sorry if some might have taken it that way.

<This post brought to you by CQC, voted most popular software automation package on Cocoontech, the least biased automation forum on the web>

Sorry, couldn't resist

 

[WayneW]

Too much HS slamming has kept the HS enthusiasts away.

Hogwash, IMHO. Care to name names? Rupp is probably the biggest HS enthusiast and he STILL keeps coming here, both to defend HS/HST and to chat about neutral topics and ideas. Rupp and all passionate users are welcomed here. We are not trying to pull people away from their "home" message board, but this gives a nice mixed environment to share ideas.

 

[toymaster458]

Even though Dean posted on CQC Forum regarding this poll it still has the results I was expecting. Looking back at the thread where we discussed the creating the poll Home Automation Software out of a total of 48 replies 15 members said they use CQC. Also with CQC being the new kid on the block it's users are going to be more vocal then others. I am sure if this was more of a Global based poll CQC would be way down on the list just because of the user base that ML and HS have that do not visit CocoonTech. Maybe someone should post at those other forums about this poll to increase the members that come to Cocoontech on a regular bases.

 

[Steve]

I look at the survey as really just a bit of trivia. What I do think it showcases is that Cocoontech is quickly becoming not the place to go for unbiased opinion. Something I hope Electron / BSR should be concerned about. I don't have an easy answer, but it should be of concern. Too much HS slamming has kept the HS enthusiasts away. That's really too bad since they probably have the highest level of expertise in their fold of the DIY community. Some really sharp and sharing folks are on the HS forum. It would be great if they were also attracted to visit cocoontech more often. I can definately see why they could care less and just stay on the HS forum.

Hopefully as folks move to HS2.1 (which all HS users should) there will be less negativity on cocoontech.

Well, Wayne already said most of what I wanted to say but I am also a bit disturbed about why CT is being called biased and Homeseer unfriendly? If people (especially corporate officers) are going to make claims like that, please back it up with examples. All this 'bashing' and 'bias' is purely caused by the companies themselves. Most of the people that 'bash' Homeseer are HS users themselves unhappy about decisions that are made. I actually find CT a breath of fresh air where people can speak their opinions without fear.

The bottom line is that when a company blunders and makes decisions that are not in harmony with their customers wants and needs, it will be stated here. Sure there has been alot of this regarding Homeseer lately, but if Cinemar or CQC or Elk made mistakes, people would point it out. Look at Elk - they meesed up by not keeping temp sensors in their KP2, guess what, there was a whole thread full of people saying they wanted it. They are squeeking and hopefully Elk is listening. People have complained about how long its been without seeing and new products, hopefully thats fixed now. Lord only knows people complain about paid (and expensive) plugins for their systems. Take these complaints and improve your product and operations! So, if people are not complaining about your product, take that as a good sign that you are doing something right, maybe that why CQC has so many votes, I don't know.

So yes, take this survey for what it is worth and lets not take it to a low level. But I do think CQC users are happy overall and happy to encourage others to jump on board. But let the products stand on their own merit!

To all corporate officers: Cinemar, CQC, HS, HAL, Elk, etc. PLEASE spend your time listening to your customers (all of them) and improving your products. If you make a mistake that upsets your customers, own up to it and correct it. Don't badmouth other products, don't get defensive about someones opinions about your products, turn negativity into solutions via your companies actions.

There are alot of good products out there. At the end of the day people will choose the one that meets their needs and is supported by knowledgeable, friendly and willing to help people. So lets not worry about informal polls and spend our time creating solutions for customers and each other.

 

[IVB]

I propose megapoll part IV: How happy are you with your current HA software vendor?

Looking back at the thread where we discussed the creating the poll Home Automation Software out of a total of 48 replies 15 members said they use CQC.

Ok, now THAT'S interesting. 33% of the replies [not people] said they use CQC, and there was NO post on any forum asking folks to come. That's CT regulars only.

So, regardless of ANY independent reminder that there's a CT poll for those irregulars, CQC is still in the lead.

I don't think combining the HS #s is appropriate, given that the same folks argued the other way in the other thread. We need to pick a direction and stick with it, not change our mind when the results aren't what we wanted.

 

[johnnynine]

Since joining cocoontech I have felt a slight bias preference here towards Elk and CQC as well.

I don't mind it at all... it just means that more of the vocal people here use it, which is great for users of thoses systems. The help and advice is friendly and appreciated.... not to mention that representatives of both products post here almost daily.

There are many users here that use other systems and enjoy them just as much I'm sure.

In fact the huge amount of support and feedback of Elk and CQC here has encouraged me to use them in my future home automation project. I haven't made any purchases yet but I am looking forward to when I can.

edit: Changed "bias" to "preference" as nothing unfair was intended.

 

[Guy Lavoie]

One must be careful not to confuse product bias with the buzz always caused by the recent release or updates of new products. The current buzz about the Elk products is largely due to the flurry of different options and software updates that have been introduced in the past year or two. There was also a lot of similar hype when Insteon was introduced, as there was around HS 2.0, Z-Wzve, UPB, etc.

More important is how the product has been doing since the initial hype has doed down and the actual users begin to report the issues they run into. Yes, the Elk M1 has been doing very well in that regard. Other products such as Insteon have shown that more work in needed on them.

 

[DavidL]

When I am saying "unbiased", I meant not that any one individual is not entitled to his / her opinion, or that one user or another is screened. It just isn't a balanced discussion. So, replace "unbiased" with "unbalanced" in my prior post. There is so much Homeseer bashing (from folks that are entitled and that do voice their opinion) that it isn't "pleasant" for HS users to come her. Again, that is only a sense that I have. There are tons many more satisfied HS users than the negative posts one reads here reflects. That is what I mean of "biased". Someone coming to cocoontech in the past 6 months might come with the opinion that HS is junk. The truth is very far from that perspective.

I am not even saying that the "bashing" is warranted or unwarranted. It just exists and it's just not fun to hear. This is a hobby for most here. Who wants to go to the "clubhouse" and hear grumbling? Not nearly as bad as the ole Security newsgroup (alt.security.something or other), but that's the point. I can't remember because I don't go there anymore.

Good points Guy.

 

[WayneW]

Since joining cocoontech I have felt a slight bias here towards Elk and CQC as well.

Bias or user favoritism? I am not picking on you, but "bias" seems to have negative connotations, especially directed at the group as a whole. As individual users, I think we all have our opinions and favorites and that is why we bought what we bought. Hopefully we are happy with what we bought, which shows up as enthusiasm or favoritism.

There are a number of products in the poll with a single response and some with no responses. That doesn't indicate those are bad products or users of those products should feel inferior here. If the product has a single response, it means that that user should bring his friends and other users here and join the fun. If the product has no votes, it just shows how hard it is to get the word out.

 

[smee]

There is so much Homeseer bashing (from folks that are entitled and that do voice their opinion) that it isn't "pleasant" for HS users to come her.

I think this is way too strong a statement. There isn't that much bashing going on here - I'd call it complaining more than bashing, anyway. How many threads, out of all the threads here, can be put into this group? And most of the complaints about HS, this has been said many times, are not because people don't like the product, but because they like it enough to care.

And I don't recall ever reading anything here that makes it unpleasant for me to be here (I use HomeSeer and have no intentions of using anything else).

If anything, I think there are probably way more posts here saying that people are always bashing HS than there are posts actually complaining about anything. Maybe it's a conspiracy among non-HS users to make HS look bad without actually producing any substantial evidence . Just say that people are always bashing HS and don't back it up. That's not an uncommon approach - though it's usually used in things like politics.

 

[Steve]

David, nobody is disputing that HS is a good product. The 'bashing' as you call it at least imo is not even directed at the product itself, it is more about HST's actions and decisions than anything. I also think its the SAME users that frequent the HS forums, the difference is on that corporate board, their expressions of their opinion get deleted, here they don't. I truly believe that if HS management stops making decisions that frankly just piss off their users, they will enjoy a large following which they have always had.

I think its important that people have an outlet to express their opinions and feelings about the products and companies. Look at Elk's motto - 'Squeeky wheels get the grease'. Take an example - only 3 people expressed their opinion that the way day/light settings were restored was a bug. What did Elk do - they looked at it and CHANGED it in the next release. They didn't bellyache about it. That is precisely the kind of support that draws customers and KEEPS them. I'm not saying that every change requested by a group of people should be implemented, but all requests, opinions and anything to do with the product should be weighed by management. But when companies make decisions that are not liked by their customers, what do you expect - the customers will voice their opinion. The difference between the successful companies and unsuccessful ones will be how they react to things like that. Stay quiet and delete posts, or talk to their customers and react accordingly. I'll stick with the company that reacts to their customers and changing market conditions, not the one that defends their position to the death.

 

[Ripper99]

What I do think it showcases is that Cocoontech is quickly becoming not the place to go for unbiased opinion. Something I hope Electron / BSR should be concerned about. I don't have an easy answer, but it should be of concern.

Actually I find the CT forums to be very informative and unbiased, on the other hand David while I used your software(Mainlobby) for 6 months + I found your forums to be *very* biased to your product and Homeseer only because you sell a plugin that integrates with it and usually any threads mentioning CQC or other competing products would be deleted in short time by you personally.

The way I see it anybody selling product in this poll has the right to post on their forum and make users aware of the poll just as Dean from CQC has done...have you done the same Cinemar?

If you haven't posted a link on Cinemar forums for your users to place their vote one has to wonder why? Instead of whining that forum votes are skewed or that they don't mean a thing or that CQC has the smallest market penetration perhaps you should act more like a "Corporate Officer" or whatever your claim to fame might be.

Once again Mainlobby users do have the right to post here in this poll..however it seems many of them are not aware of CT possibly by your own actions of not mentioning this poll.

As for Homeseer bashing..while it is a good product in many ways I took offense to Rick basically saying I couldn't buy their controller when they first announced it because I wasn't a dealer... yet I had been using Homeseer on/off since before it was even called Homeseer!

I took that as a slap in the face and not long after began looking elsewhere not only for a replacement for Homeseer but also for your product Mainlobby after waiting over 6 months with no updates to the core Cinemar product and basically I got tired of your attitude toward customers like myself who invested over $1000 in your product/drivers.