home automation mega poll, part III

Rupp said:
I'm curious. Why is HomeSeer listed as 2 different versions? Are all the other products so new that they only have one version or does this poll have a bit of bias built in?
It is listed as 2 separate versions because the users requested it that way in some discussions, maybe it was a thread here, maybe it was chat. I would say the decision to split them was correct, based upon the number of votes received in each category. Anybody is welcome to add them together if they desire so they can be compared with the other products, but remember, this is a poll of the CT community and isn't meant to reflect the world as a whole.

No, there are multiple products older than HomeSeer on the list, but I am not aware of any of them causing the amount of discussion that HomeSeer has regarding its versions and policies.

Bias? We don't need no stinking bias! Seriously, how could a simple poll like that be biased? Are the black helicopters getting too close?
 
No "poll" can be completely subjective. I agree with you Rupp, a bit unusual since the other choices like MainLobby 2 and now 3 have a few major rev changes. I am sure CQC as well, though they aren't counted like that (at least according to the CQC fans there have been lots of updates). I can also see it from another point of view that HS2 is likely considered a completely diff breed from HS1 - not that that is entirely true, but at least significantly true.

Again the poll is fun, but not exactly indicative of what overall users are using or what they think of their choice.
 
DavidL said:
No "poll" can be completely subjective. I agree with you Rupp, a bit unusual since the other choices like MainLobby 2 and now 3 have a few major rev changes. I am sure CQC as well, though they aren't counted like that (at least according to the CQC fans there have been lots of updates). I can also see it from another point of view that HS2 is likely considered a completely diff breed from HS1 - not that that is entirely true, but at least significantly true.
A simple poll only gets biased when it uses elaborate wording that put "spin" on the question or force you to select an answer you don't like. None of that here.

MainLobby 3 was released/announced 1 week before this poll started. How many users upgraded that first week? Since the poll didn't specify ML2, any ML3 users should have felt safe voting for the generic ML.

QCQ and ML2 and others have been through multiple revisions, but none of those were a charged upgrade (AFAIK), or at least not a charged upgrade within the past few years. So, IMHO, it doesn't make sense to split hairs over build numbers.
 
Rupp said:
I'm curious. Why is HomeSeer listed as 2 different versions? Are all the other products so new that they only have one version or does this poll have a bit of bias built in?
I think I was the one who suggested that. I just thought it would be interesting to know how many people were using each platform. This was before the recent "debate" about updating to 2.x and was not meant to advocate either option or otherwise create bias in the poll.
 
Pretty simplistic definition of "bias". Just changing the scaling on a poll result graph is bias. Any good analyist / marketer knows that :D
The Homeseer community is split here, none of the others are. I agree that to know what voting cocooners use is interesting, but it's still 'biased'. But, that 'bias' is a matter of opinion.

Also, that the poll forum technology forces an answer when you attempt to view the results can 'bias' the response. If one of the involved companies gave coaching to their faction to NOT view before voting for their favorite, that biases the poll. Not to say that has been done here. I would think that the better way is that if you tried to look at the result, that you got a warning that you won't be able to vote. Again, no big deal.
 
DavidL said:
Pretty simplistic definition of "bias". Just changing the scaling on a poll result graph is bias. Any good analyist / marketer knows that smile.gif
The Homeseer community is split here, none of the others are. I agree that to know what voting cocooners use is interesting, but it's still 'biased'. But, that 'bias' is a matter of opinion.


Also, that the poll forum technology forces an answer when you attempt to view the results can 'bias' the response. If one of the involved companies gave coaching to their faction to NOT view before voting for their favorite, that biases the poll. Not to say that has been done here. I would think that the better way is that if you tried to look at the result, that you got a warning that you won't be able to vote. Again, no big deal.
It is a pretty simple poll, hence the simple definition. Sorry, I missed the graph, please provide a link.

That is standard behavior for most polls I have ever seen. And if you are making veiled jabs at other products, please provide evidence.

Yes, it would be nice if you were warned first, but apparently this version of the board and/or poll software doesn't support that.
 
Hmmm, lots of talk about whether this poll is biased or not. Obviously it's biased. One can't put a poll in a specific place and not expect bias. User groups who find the information on this particular forum at this site will see the poll and vote. User groups who don't find information here that helps with their goals won't come to this site or this forum, so they won't see the poll. Obviously advertising helps greatly, case in point, one choice had 0 votes first thing this morning and at last look was up to 8. All these votes came AFTER a certain someone posted a link to this poll in a place that THEY go for information. :D

I've also found this site to be biased toward specific solutions. I'm not saying that's good or bad, it's just what I've observed. The result is that people who might be going different ways will often go elsewhere for their information.
 
I agree piper chuck, that's not any fault of cocoontech, but I think it's a reality. The folks behind cocoontech have done what they can to be open and unbiased and all the rest. Great job really. I think circumstances has created the current situation. Hopefully with lots more cocooners, this will massage itself out. Wish I had a positive suggestion to offer to help speed this up.
 
piper_chuck said:
Hmmm, lots of talk about whether this poll is biased or not. Obviously it's biased. One can't put a poll in a specific place and not expect bias. User groups who find the information on this particular forum at this site will see the poll and vote. User groups who don't find information here that helps with their goals won't come to this site or this forum, so they won't see the poll. Obviously advertising helps greatly, case in point, one choice had 0 votes first thing this morning and at last look was up to 8. All these votes came AFTER a certain someone posted a link to this poll in a place that THEY go for information. :D
Folks, the poll is not biased in my mind and so far nobody has convinced me otherwise. It is YOUR interpretation of the poll results that bias it and so far no one has (or probably ever will) offered an official summary of the poll.

For those of you accusing CT of bias, which definition are you referring to? http://www.answers.com/topic/bias

As stated previously, the purpose of this poll was to sample the active CT users. Unfortunately, no "official rules" were posted, so now we have the situation with selective advertising. If CT wanted to sample the world, we would have issued press releases and posted the poll in all appropriate forums. The poll is now unbalanced and unusable due to solicitations, but that is a different subject. Once the sample is voided, the poll has to be voided in a technical sense.

AFAIK, HomeSeer or ActiveHome are probably the most popular HA software packages in the world. So far, we have ZERO votes for ActiveHome. Does somebody really think that they can spin this poll to indicate that ActiveHome is dead? No Way! I also believe that if we posted a link to this poll on the HS message board, those users could make this poll so lopsided it isn't funny.

So far, this poll has 90 votes (even with solicitations) compared to the X10/Z/UPB/Insteon poll which has 139 votes. That would imply that we have 49 people who haven't voted yet or about 1/3rd of the people using fancy lighting are not controlling it with software. Maybe they are using hardware, maybe they have no control, who knows? Maybe we need another poll? :)
 
DavidL said:
I agree piper chuck, that's not any fault of cocoontech, but I think it's a reality. The folks behind cocoontech have done what they can to be open and unbiased and all the rest. Great job really. I think circumstances has created the current situation. Hopefully with lots more cocooners, this will massage itself out. Wish I had a positive suggestion to offer to help speed this up.
One positive suggestion is: Don't worry about it! Last year the favorites were Homeseer and the Ocelot. This year it is CQC and the M1. Next year we will only be talking about PowerHome and the HAI OmniProII. That is just one of the things that makes this board different from sites tied to specific products.

As for announcing polls on other boards as a way to influence the vote... I say what a great idea! For the next poll let's make it a point to post an invite on as many other boards as possible so we can raise CocoonTech awareness among other groups of like minded folks.
 
piper_chuck said:
Hmmm, lots of talk about whether this poll is biased or not. Obviously it's biased. One can't put a poll in a specific place and not expect bias. User groups who find the information on this particular forum at this site will see the poll and vote. User groups who don't find information here that helps with their goals won't come to this site or this forum, so they won't see the poll. Obviously advertising helps greatly, case in point, one choice had 0 votes first thing this morning and at last look was up to 8. All these votes came AFTER a certain someone posted a link to this poll in a place that THEY go for information. :D
Folks, the poll is not biased in my mind and so far nobody has convinced me otherwise. It is YOUR interpretation of the poll results that bias it and so far no one has (or probably ever will) offered an official summary of the poll.
It's got nothing to do with the poll, it's the location.
For those of you accusing CT of bias, which definition are you referring to? http://www.answers.com/topic/bias
There is a bias among the people here. They tend to prefer certain solutions. Go to other sites and you'll find other biases. This isn't good or bad, it's just a fact of life!
As stated previously, the purpose of this poll was to sample the active CT users. Unfortunately, no "official rules" were posted, so now we have the situation with selective advertising. If CT wanted to sample the world, we would have issued press releases and posted the poll in all appropriate forums. The poll is now unbalanced and unusable due to solicitations, but that is a different subject. Once the sample is voided, the poll has to be voided in a technical sense.
You're not going to have an unbiased poll at ANY online site.
 
upstatemike said:
One positive suggestion is: Don't worry about it! Last year the bias was towards HomeSeer and the Ocelot. This year it is CQC and the M1. Next year we will only be talking about PowerHome and the HAI OmniProII. That is just one of the things that makes this board different from sites tied to specific products.
Bias? Again I ask somebody to please explain how CT and/or its management is biased? I believe the word you were looking for is "favorite" or "popular". Some users may be biased, but mostly it is just favoritism.

upstatemike said:
As for announcing polls on other boards as a way to influence the vote... I say what a great idea! For the next poll let's make it a point to post an invite on as many other boards as possible so we can raise CocoonTech awareness among other groups of like minded folks.
Other than raising CT awareness, that serves almost no purpose as it would just be a popularity contest or a way to judge advertising effectiveness.
 
piper_chuck said:
It's got nothing to do with the poll, it's the location.
So now the "location" makes it biased? So when you vote in a national election, is your polling place biased? Therefore, by your definition, the MisterHouse maillist is biased? I didn't think an inanimate object could be biased.

piper_chuck said:
There is a bias among the people here. They tend to prefer certain solutions. Go to other sites and you'll find other biases. This isn't good or bad, it's just a fact of life!
Some people may be biased here, as in any place, but that doesn't make the poll or CT itself biased, which is what some were accusing.

piper_chuck said:
You're not going to have an unbiased poll at ANY online site.
Please explain. CT is a vendor neutral site, all are welcome, so please explain CT's bias to me. Again, going back to elections, if any gathering is inherently biased, are you saying elections are biased? If I ask you to take a poll of what is in your pantry, that poll is now biased?
 
BIAS
A bias is a prejudice in a general or specific sense, usually in the sense for having a preference to one particular point of view or ideological perspective. However, one is generally only said to be biased if one's powers of judgment are influenced by the biases one holds, to the extent that one's views could not be taken as being neutral or objective, but instead as subjective. A bias could, for example, lead one to accept or deny the truth of a claim, not on the basis of the strength of the arguments in support of the claim themselves, but because of the extent of the claim's correspondence with one's own preconceived ideas.

A systematic bias is a bias resulting from a flaw integral to the system within which the bias arises (for example, an incorrectly calibrated thermostat may consistently read – that is 'be biased' – several degrees hotter or colder than actual temperature). As a consequence, systematic bias commonly leads to systematic errors, as opposed to random errors, which tend to cancel one another out.

In practice, accusations of bias often result from unacknowledged favouritism on the part of a critic or judge, or indeed any person in a position requiring the careful and disinterested exercise of arbitration or assessment. Any tendency to favour a certain set of values naturally leads to an uneven dispensation of judgment. It may also be noted that, if a person were to take their own preexisting view as a priori balanced without acknowledging their own personal inclinations, any person or organization that disagrees with their views is likely to be viewed as biased regardless of that person or organization's actual efforts at balance. It may be observed that bias is, in a sense, reflexive, unacknowledged or unrecognised bias potentially leading to its apprehension (with or without good reason) in others.

This is particularly common in discussion of news media outlets such as CNN, Fox News Channel, The New York Times, Al Jazeera, and so on. For example, Bill O'Reilly has made accusations of liberal bias against the staunchly conservative Globe and Mail; at the same time, critics of O'Reilly accuse him of a conservative bias. Control Room, a documentary film made in 2004, has examined the role of bias in the media, through an examination of the conflicting methods of reporting the events of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003, in Western and Arabian news networks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias
 
This industry is still new. Technology changes, products come and some go. People try and buy certain products. They leave others behind. Personally I do not want to split hairs but I think bias is the wrong word. People everywhere have their opinions. Here they are allowed to present them without fear of reprisal. What concerns me though is people express their opinion or vote for a favorite and then they are cut down because some people are angry that their personal favorite wasn't as popular as another. That just leads people to be defensive and ultimately to not want to participate any more.

Show me any other forum on the Internet that has such a wide variety of topics. Very small populations of people speak up, many lurk. Does that mean that the most frequent posters bias the whole forum to their liking? Well certainly some people will see lots of posts from few people about few products and go away calling bias. How is that fixed? STOP LURKING. How many hundreds or I think it is over 1000 members now? And < 100 votes? Maybe its the vocal few that skew results? The voting mechanism is broken for sure. I know at least 3 people here that use Mainlobby, yet only 1 vote. That right there tells me something is wrong, but who knows, are these people just lurking? Are they too scared to vote? Or did they just peek first and get excluded?

I don't know and frankly I don't care. I come here because it is generally a friendly place where people can have fun and discuss ANY product or frankly anything else on their mind. It would be very nice if people would stop lurking, come out of their shells and talk about their favorites, express their opinions.

Last thing I want to see here is negative posts and 'crybabies' (go ahead, flame me) calling foul over a stupid informal poll. So can we please just forget this thread and move on to the stuff that brings people here in the first place?

C'mon in, the waters fine!
 
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