home automation mega poll, part III

[IVB]

I think everyone's right. CQC has enjoyed 9 months of rapid upgrades, and that momentum is blowing down people's doors. The industry is still new, so that's what's getting tons of votes. HS has been around, and is still up there. But alas, there's that MH and PH coming up.

What CT has is a bias towards what is currently strong and in top of mind. I'll be a broken record and use the same words I use elsewhere: This poll is an awesome leading indicator of where the industry could head. But for all we know, the winds of change could shift, a major power could come in and flood the market, and for $300 you could get a product that would answer all of your prayers.

After all the investment we've got, and I'd dare say most of us have >$10K all-in [hw & sw] in our systems, folks wouldn't think twice about abandoning their current platform and dropping $300 if they knew a competing product would be perfect.

Hence, this poll is what newcomers should be looking at as what is currently showing strong, but we shouldn't pretend it'll look anything like this in 6-12 months. It's all just too new.

 

[piper_chuck]

It's got nothing to do with the poll, it's the location.

So now the "location" makes it biased? So when you vote in a national election, is your polling place biased?

Location, this particular online site. Try to not be so literal!

Therefore, by your definition, the MisterHouse maillist is biased?

It sure is, but who cares?

I didn't think an inanimate object could be biased.

Again, try not to be so literal!

There is a bias among the people here. They tend to prefer certain solutions. Go to other sites and you'll find other biases. This isn't good or bad, it's just a fact of life!

Some people may be biased here, as in any place, but that doesn't make the poll or CT itself biased, which is what some were accusing.

Not sure it's worth going into, but when the "leadership" of a particular site endorse specific products, this tends to make the site "appear" biased. If specific vendors frequent the forums, and tend to say negative things about other vendor's products, the site will "appear" biased.

You're not going to have an unbiased poll at ANY online site.

Please explain. CT is a vendor neutral site, all are welcome, so please explain CT's bias to me.

The bias is because the people that tend to hang out here tend to prefer certain solutions. This creates a bias. For example, if I'm looking for information on Misterhouse, it's obvious there are other places with more information. There's nothing wrong with this, and it's nothing CT has specifically done, but it's the nature of the site.

Again, going back to elections, if any gathering is inherently biased, are you saying elections are biased? If I ask you to take a poll of what is in your pantry, that poll is now biased?

Why are you asking about my pantry?

Bias happens, it's a fact of life. I don't think anyone has accused CT of any wrong doing, they are just pointing out what's obvious to people who look at it objectively.

 

[upstatemike]

As for announcing polls on other boards as a way to influence the vote... I say what a great idea! For the next poll let's make it a point to post an invite on as many other boards as possible so we can raise CocoonTech awareness among other groups of like minded folks.

Other than raising CT awareness, that serves almost no purpose...

As far as I'm concerned raising CT awareness is plenty purpose enough. Getting more people to participate is a lot more important then the actual poll results. Did you have some deeper purpose in mind for these polls?

 

[Rupp]

As far as I'm concerned raising CT awareness is plenty purpose enough. Getting more people to participate is a lot more important then the actual poll results. Did you have some deeper purpose in mind for these polls?

Free advertising. It's the only way to do it.

 

[Steve]

(piper_chuck @ Jul 29 2006, 08:18 PM)
There is a bias among the people here.  They tend to prefer certain solutions.  Go to other sites and you'll find other biases.  This isn't good or bad, it's just a fact of life!
Some people may be biased here, as in any place, but that doesn't make the poll or CT itself biased, which is what some were accusing.

Not sure it's worth going into, but when the "leadership" of a particular site endorse specific products, this tends to make the site "appear" biased. If specific vendors frequent the forums, and tend to say negative things about other vendor's products, the site will "appear" biased.

I was trying to move on but this deserves a reply. Since we are on CT and talking about CT, I am assuming you are referring to CT here. If not, I am sorry. If you are saying the CT leadership endorses certain products then I am going to have to ask you to offer proof of that accusation. CT is vendor neutral. They post press releases from all vendors and treat them all with dignity, respect and fairness. Sure they all use certain products themselves and will talk about them, but that in no way are endorsements or acts of creating bias. And I also don't recall vendors coming here with negativity. There are many competitive vendors here. Some will call their products 'the best' or shameless plug their product but I have not ever witnessed making negative comments about another. I don't think the admins would even allow that and there is no room for that on an open forum.

(piper_chuck @ Jul 29 2006, 08:18 PM)
You're not going to have an unbiased poll at ANY online site.
Please explain. CT is a vendor neutral site, all are welcome, so please explain CT's bias to me.

The bias is because the people that tend to hang out here tend to prefer certain solutions. This creates a bias. For example, if I'm looking for information on Misterhouse, it's obvious there are other places with more information. There's nothing wrong with this, and it's nothing CT has specifically done, but it's the nature of the site.

Wow. If people did not prefer different thing I guess this planet would be pretty dang boring. Of course people prefer certain products or solutions. If you don't find Misterhouse info here, maybe that's because a Misterhouse guru is just lurking? Or maybe they stay at home at the MH forum. But just because you don't find a specific solution here does not make this place biased in the least. There are many people here that are sme's in many products. I see people answer all kinds of questions on all kinds of subjects. Have a question on MH, then ASK it! Don't assume because you don't see Q&A or alot of traffic about a specific product that the mods, forum or people here are biased. I'm sorry if you feel CT is biased or people talk more about certain things than others, but I will always be one of the first to jump up and defend Electron and BSR for their hard work and NON BIASED attitude.

So PLEASE, lets move on. If you don't like this place or feel it is not helpful, nobody twists your arms to come and post. Everyone is welcome here to discuss ANYTHING.

Sorry, that just hit a nerve cause I know how hard Electron and BSR work at this and even if not intentional, this post struck me as negative toward them and this site. Nothing personal and I hope you post about your favorite stuff and ask questions and help others. THAT is what this place is all about.

 

[Rupp]

Dang Steve you sure are taking this seriously .... I thought this was just a fun poll?

 

[Steve]

Dang Steve you sure are taking this seriously .... I thought this was just a fun poll?

Sorry, maybe I'm just tired and maybe I am just reading too much into it, but it is more of a defensive posture for E and BSR than anything because I know how hard they work and how much time they spend helping people and being totally neutral. This whole thing is out of hand and maybe should be locked.

Ok, enough, let's go have a drink and hey, piper_chuck - you are inivited too! We can talk about MH, Homeseer, CQC, Elk, HAI, Mainlobby, Powerhome or anything else.

 

[Rupp]

Steve,
There you go!

 

[Chakara]

It took me a minute to see where Steve was coming from. I assumed I knew what "bias" means. Finally followed Wayne's link and was supprised to learn that a bias is by definition an "unfair" leaning towards something.

I believe this whole debate is based on a common misunderstanding of the word...?

 

[Tymon]

WOW!
I am in shock!
Biased? This board? Come on. (NOT sarcasm)
Other than the people employed by these companies (Dean, Rupp, DavidL, Spanky, Rich, etc...) I have a hard time calling this board biased.

And, to that point, half the reason I come here is to see what Dean, Rupp, DavidL, Spanky, and Rich have to say.

I cant believe this little poll has taken us down this path.

I use HS, ML and Elk and I am rellatively happy.

I have never felt like anyone was "bashing" a certain company.

All I want is good information and the ultimate HA system.

I feel like I get the good, the bad and the ugly here without any "onesidedness". (how do like that word!)

All I want is solid information, and I feel like I get that here.

Can we all just get back to automating?

Ty

 

[johnnynine]

Wow, has this thread got out of control or what?

I changed "bias" to "preference" in my original post as nothing unfair was intended.

I didn't realize the dictionary definition of bias had unfair in it.

 

[JohnWPB]

Rupp Wrote:

I'm curious. Why is HomeSeer listed as 2 different versions? Are all the other products so new that they only have one version or does this poll have a bit of bias built in?

Rupp, I was waiting for someone to ask that, I just had no idea it was going to be you. I thougt of all people, you would know better than to think that. I am pretty sure I can speak for Electron, and say it has NOTHING to be with being biased.

When the thead first started asking what to include in the poll, (FROM EVERYONE) it was mentioned to break HS into the 1.x and the 2.x. This would enable people to see not only what was being used (The purpose of the poll in the first place), but, with a single poll to see how many people made the switch to HS 2.0. (secondary data if you want to call it that). If you add up 1.x and 2.x, you get the total amount of HS users.

Yes, some will say that that is not the case. But with OS's for example, when asked how many people use Mac OS -VS- Windows, you get a certain percentage for each. That includes ALL the Mac OS's, as well as ALL the Windows versions (95, 98, ME, XP Home, XP Pro, 2000) ect ect.... With that in mind, in can be nice, from that single poll, to know how many of the Mac users are now using Tiger as a "Bi-product" (secondary data) of that percentage. Thus, more information from a single poll. I think HS was just singled out from the others as there was such a drastic re-write from HS 1.x to 2.x when it went totally web based (DotNet).

I realize this forum/board started as kind of an alternative to the HS forums, but has come along way since then, and I have seen no bias on this board whatsoever, other than people sticking to, and defending what they use.

I would define "Bias" as

- Deleting posts not related to a certain software/hardware/company.

- Talking badly or running down a certain software

- Judging someone by what software they use

- Banning posts about specific topics / software / hardware

I have seen very little, if any, of that on the Cocoon forums. Sure, I could theoretically say "Mac OS SUX" and stir up some crap on here (and trust me it would!), but the post would not be deleted. Sure, as I mentioned, people will talk good about what they use, and also talk bad about other software. That makes this what makes this a truly un-biased forum.

I can say that when Electron posted this poll, he probably had no idea what so ever that it would start such a war! People, I am sorry, but get over it! There is NO bias, no ill intentions were meant by it, and it certainly was not intended to stir so much deception in the ranks!

We all enjoy technology / home automation in so may facets, just realize there are other users that use different software/hardware and move on! This poll was simply posted to give a GENERAL idea of what software people are using, and nothing more. It was never meant to be the "end all" of poll’s out there, simply, again, a GENERAL idea. Wheather its just for this board, or the entire planet!

Shew!!!! nuff said. I just had to get that off my chest after reading all the posts/bickering in this thread.

So now, anyone want to talk politics or religion?

 

[piper_chuck]

Wow, has this thread got out of control or what?

I changed "bias" to "preference" in my original post as nothing unfair was intended.

I didn't realize the dictionary definition of bias had unfair in it.

The dictionary also has definitions such as "an inclination of temperament or outlook", but that was ignored despite the rest of the messages. Instead, there was a fixation on the negative connotations. It was VERY clear that I was talking about tendency, not prejudice:

There is a bias among the people here. They tend to prefer certain solutions. Go to other sites and you'll find other biases. This isn't good or bad, it's just a fact of life!

Unfortunately, people have become so sensitized over the negative uses of the word by the media that they've allowed themselves to get all worked up over nothing. Obviously there are some issues here, but they aren't worth discussing any more. I'm outta here.

 

[Rupp]

John,
To be totally honest I thought this thread was slowing down and not much else was being discussed. It's a known fact that if a user throws the bias word around in a poll that the participation in that poll increases. So this was very simply a way to get the ball rolling again. It appears to have worked. Just a bit of fun for a rainy Saturday that's all. But it does bring out the best in us.

 

[IVB]

Hmmm. Wonder how this poll would read now.