I can't decide!

[royalj7]

Kilkenny,

The good news is there are many other folks in your exact same position, so don't feel bad! The bad news is there is no clear cut answer to what is best. It's like asking a car enthusiast what car is the best...you're going to get almost as many answers as there are people. So, if you're not sure what you want there is one way that you can approach it that would help narrow down your choices. If you really like a piece of equipment or a technology, check and see if the controller, software, etc supports it. If it doesn't, well your choices just got narrower! If it does, then go on to the next item and so forth. An example would be lighting technology or a video matrix switcher your really like (or can get at a super low price, etc).

--Jamie

 

[Steve]

That is a good approach but my one caution is just not to be shortsighted. All I can directly speak for is CQC. If there is not currently a driver for a specific device or technology, I know I can either wait for CQS to write one if it is popular enough or there are several talented programmers that would be happy to write drivers for a very reasonable amount. And more and more drivers are written every month. So, what I am trying to say, is if there is a software package you really like, but there is not support for one of your desired technologies, don't dismiss it as a choice right away - instead, do some inquires and find out about getting it supported.

 

[IVB]

Well said, Steve.

As an example, there's currently a concerto driver but *not* a grand concerto driver. I'm torn about what to do about my dying Xantech, but one of the other forum members reached out to one of the driver writers and he's willing to write the grand concerto driver for $200. Split 2-3 ways, that's not much, and we're planning on donating it to the free CQC library upon completion.

 

[Kilkenny]

Thanks all for the nice information. I plan to read your document this weekend IVB.

I just want to make it clear that I am more interested in not being closed into a box with the selection I make. In other words, what works with what...what doesn't work with what. It would be nice to see a matrix of some sort. For example, I really like the UPB technology for lighting automation. If i get so and so automation package would I be hosed if I wanted to use UPB? Note that I am using UPB as an example only.

With that said I want to be able to buy the automation package and then slowly work in whatever I want. My remodel gets under way soon and the wiring will be top notch as i have read a ton about how to set myself up properly. I guessed I'd be running over 8,000 feet of cat5e, RG6, low voltage, and speaker. Just don't want to get that automation package and then find later on that it doesn't handle a selection I make a year from now. At the same time I don't want to be handcuffed to a package because I paid so much for it I feel obligated. Not sure if there is a best of both worlds solution. Definitely some more thought and research to be done.

I will say that it is fun stuff to research though. I'm having a blast planning this whole thing. :unsure:

 

[Steve]

Well, imho, a panel like Elk and software to complement it protects you the best. I'm sure yoiu are smart enough to understand there are no guarantees. Whatever you choose today may be gone tomorrow. Stuff happens and sometimes there are shockers. You just have to make the best judgement call for the moment. For example, Elk has been around in one form another for a very long time. There are pretty good odds they will be around for a long time, but of course, anything can happen. With software, on of the things that attracted me to CQC is the speed at which it is maturing and the speed at which new things get added. Some will argue, and correctly to a point that other packages are more mature and hence already have stuff and don't need new versions as quickly. But I do look at that, and more importantly support. ALL software, regardless of how good it is, is going to have bugs found. How quickly they are fixed and patches are released is a HUGE factor for me, and if you look around, some are really quick and others alot slow to respond. These are the smaller things to look at that should have a bigger impact on your decision. I'd rather go with a system that has a track record of listening to users and quickly adding features then one that is alot slower to respond and only offers updates infrequently.

 

[IVB]

Thanks all for the nice information. I plan to read your document this weekend IVB.

...
I will say that it is fun stuff to research though. I'm having a blast planning this whole thing.

If you can attend that 8:30am PST webex, you can get a live training session.

 

[DavidL]

Rupp, MainLobby is a full automation solution. It's not just a "pretty face". There aren't too many things you can't do with just MainLobby. Most all of the things people want to automate is possible without HAL, or Homeseer. I am sure you are coming from the perspective of spending lots of time reading about how MainLobby is a very popular addition to Homeseer on Homeseer's forum, but if you look on Cinemar's forum, you will find that most users don't use any of the other automation packages.

Another common forum "fallacy" is that "All" automation enthusiasts want to automate everything. Forums have posts mostly from the enthusiastic hobbyists like IVB, Rupp and other very active participants in the hobby. These post numbers make one believe that "All" are this aggressive in implementation. I believe the reality is that these are very fringe customers of at least Homeseer and MainLobby as most use the software for much more basic tasks that just about all of the automation packages handle well all by their lonesome. I don't spend as much time on CQC's forum to generalize on Dean's customers.

 

[IVB]

Another common forum "fallacy" is that "All" automation enthusiasts want to automate everything.... I believe the reality is that these are very fringe customers of at least Homeseer and MainLobby as most use the software for much more basic tasks that just about all of the automation packages handle well all by their lonesome.

I spend tons of time on the CQC forum, besides I'd love to generalize

CQC'ers tend to be an overcompensating bunch, and look to control as much as possible given that the cost of drivers is free and the architecture of the product lends itself to that.

Given that the OP made the below quote, I believe he does want to automate "buckets", if not "all". Come on down, Kilkenny, the water's fine!

I want to be able to control lighting, hvac, security and cameras, audio, video and anything else I want to control with this system. I also want to put this thing together myself.

FWIW, there's now 2 other complete newbies who are going to attend the 8:30am PST webex on saturday that I posted in the other thread. You can show up and see how easy all this stuff is to do for real.

 

[MikeB]

FWIW, there's now 2 other complete newbies who are going to attend the 8:30am PST webex on saturday that I posted in the other thread. You can show up and see how easy all this stuff is to do for real.

Is that this coming Saturday? If so, I may want to attend....

Should I have CQC already installed, or can I learn a bunch by just watching?

 

[Dean Roddey]

Is that this coming Saturday? If so, I may want to attend.... Should I have CQC already installed, or can I learn a bunch by just watching?

You should at least watch some of the tutorial videos on the web site first, to give you some grounding.

 

[IVB]

Yes, this saturday.

No, you don't need CQC installed.

Yes, you'd clue in MUCH more if you were to watch some of those tutorials first. Not an absolute mandatory requirement, but it will help you follow along.

I'll post the gotomeeting & conference call details on both CQC and here once they're available.

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

Another common forum "fallacy" is that "All" automation enthusiasts want to automate everything.

hehe - David, don't get me started . I do see your point though.

I look forward to seeing you next week at the show!

 

[royalj7]

Steve and IVB,

I definitely agree with you. But I wanted to give the OP, who seems a bit overwhelmed, a way to cut down some of his options. A good example of this is me and ML. I'm leaning towards that software package but it doesn't have support for the thermostats I like natively. So, I could either move on to a different solution, or wait until it gets added...or forget about automating my HVAC I'm not going to do that last of course, so I'll either wait until it's incorporated into the package, or go somewhere else if I get tired of the delay.

To the OP, I think you really can’t go wrong with the Elk and a software engine on top. The Elk is a solid panel, with support for a cornucopia of hardware, and what shortcomings it has can be nicely covered by the control software you pick. HAI doesn’t get as much attention on these boards, but that’s mainly because HAI targets the pro market more while Elk has be very friendly to DIY’er. So don’t feel like an Omni isn’t an option, but realize you might not be able to hop online and get questions answered as quickly as you could from the Elk friendly folks here.

--Jamie

 

[DavidL]

Martin, we just got into Orlando after a 20 hr non stop drive, booth on trailer. Just grabbed a nap and will see you tomorrow during setup.

Royalj7, Cinemar will be producing drivers to control the popular thermostats. We will be in contact with some of those vendors at the EHX show. Thanx!


IVB,
"and look to control as much as possible given that the cost of drivers is free and the architecture of the product lends itself to that.
"
MainLobby's architecture supports huge expansion as well. We have VERY significant installations in the field now. But MANY more small installations.
As you know, the cost to automate for a DIY'r is in this order

TIME
Hardware / wiring


software

The software piece is very small compared to the other two. With any of the robust software solutions out there, with the exception of Lifeware which is expensive software as well as hardware