LV actuator needed - 1-2" travel - Suggestions and help wanted.

[sic0048]

I've never used actuators before, so I am looking for some basic information and help selecting one. I want to put one in our grandfather clock to turn the chimes on and off. There is a lever accessible on the face of the clock which actually moves a bar behind the face of the clock up and down about 1-2". This bar will prevent the chimes from ringing when in the "up" position. The bar's movement is in a straight line (straight up and down 1-2").

So I'd like to put something in the clock, behind the faceplate that I can control to move this bar up and down. That way I could use my CQC or ELK system to turn the chimes on/off at will or by a scheduled event (ie turn them off at night).

Does anyone have some suggestions as to what type of actuator I should use? I was looking at some car door lock actuators and I think they would work pretty well. I believe they are 12v (although perhaps they use some sort of capacitor) and seem to travel about 1". I think I could make that work because the bar doesn't need to move the full 2" before it turns on/off the chimes. If I position the actuator correctly, I might be able to get by with as little as 1/2" movement.

I suppose I would need some sort of relay to hook up to the Elk or CQC as well.

As you can tell, I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to this type of thing. So any basic information would be helpful too.

Thanks,

 

[Neurorad]

firgelliauto.com has a selection of linear actuators

seems there are a few website affiliated with firgelli - here's one with some instructions:

http://www.dclinearactuators.com/linear-ac...-rocker-switch/

 

[gatchel]

Depending on how much force you need you could use an aftermarket automotive door lock actuator. They are cheap and work well. You would need 2 SPDT relays on the elk to control it.

Maybe try something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/HIGH-POWER-DOOR-LOCK...R/dp/B0002KR9PW

Two wire actuators work by simply reversing polarity to change direction.

 

[electron]

I'm not sure how mechanical your clock is (is it old fashioned, or does it have digital parts), but I am just wondering out of curiousity, can you put a relay between the chime and whatever drives it?

 

[sic0048]

It's all mechanical. Gears, flywheels, etc, etc, etc.

The lever I want to move somehow disconnects the chime portion of the gears and flywheels, etc. It prevents those items from moving and therefore no sound comes out.

 

[klindy]

It's all mechanical. Gears, flywheels, etc, etc, etc.

The lever I want to move somehow disconnects the chime portion of the gears and flywheels, etc. It prevents those items from moving and therefore no sound comes out.

Is there ever an opportunity to move the lever where it doesn't want to move the entire length it want's to travel? In other words, is there a chance it could crash into any of the mechanism and bend or break anything? Sometimes you have to wiggle it just right or wait for just the right place on a gear to move the lever. If that's the case, you'll probably be disappointed when something breaks in there because it wasn't lined up just right.

You may be better off using a solenoid (like the door lock suggestion) to pull a rod which it attached to the lever with a spring. That way the solenoid can fully open/close with jamming the lever into whatever it disengages/engages. If you attached the rod to the solenoid and put a long, barely stiff enough compression spring over the rod then attach the spring to the lever (or set it up so that the spring pushes into the lever), you may reduce the chances of damaging the clock works.

By the way, is this a new clock to you guys? If so, it'll be like moving near the railroad tracks, eventually the only one bothered by the noise will be someone visiting!

 

[sic0048]

Is there ever an opportunity to move the lever where it doesn't want to move the entire length it want's to travel? In other words, is there a chance it could crash into any of the mechanism and bend or break anything? Sometimes you have to wiggle it just right or wait for just the right place on a gear to move the lever. If that's the case, you'll probably be disappointed when something breaks in there because it wasn't lined up just right.

You may be better off using a solenoid (like the door lock suggestion) to pull a rod which it attached to the lever with a spring. That way the solenoid can fully open/close with jamming the lever into whatever it disengages/engages. If you attached the rod to the solenoid and put a long, barely stiff enough compression spring over the rod then attach the spring to the lever (or set it up so that the spring pushes into the lever), you may reduce the chances of damaging the clock works.

By the way, is this a new clock to you guys? If so, it'll be like moving near the railroad tracks, eventually the only one bothered by the noise will be someone visiting!

I'll try to get some pictures of the mechanism. But I don't think there is much of a chance of damaging the clock. The lever I want to move is part of the original clock design. It allows a person to turn the chimes on and off. But I would like to add someway to automate this and put it on a schedule.

Both my wife and I are very light sleepers. This clock was actually one my Grandparents had in their house and we inherited it about 3 years ago. We've always left the chimes off because it bothers both of us at night. But it would be nice to have the chime play during the day.

The clock is made by Ridgeway and isn't anything special. Even though it is probably 20 years old, it isn't a super high end clock or anything like that. Some of the newer clocks actually have a setting to turn the chimes off at night. Ours is too old and basic to have that feature.

Here is a picture from the online manual that shows the clock face. The lever sticks through the face on the right hand side (at 3 o'clock). While the picture seems to show an arc, the action behind the clock face really moves straight up and down. There is plenty of room behind the face to mount some sort of actuator or solenoid to actually move the action. While the lever might move a total of 2", it only disengages the chimes at the very end of the movement. So a properly placed 1/2" throw device could work just fine IMHO. But anything between 1/2" and 2" would probably work.

Hopefully that helps everyone to wrap their mind around what I am looking for.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

 

[brotsten]

I have a new one that has the ability to shutoff at night, it's really nice.

One thing to look out for, on mine at least, it gives instructions about what positions the hands should be in when changing the chime melody or turning them on/off. It seems when the clock is in certain positions it's a bad thing to move those levers. You also have to set the time by turning the hand backwards.

You might want to see if you can google a manual for it.

Brian

 

[WayneW]

maybe just leave the chimes off and play some Big Ben wave files from your HA PC during the day?
(just an idea, thinking outside the box)

 

[Neurorad]

And mount a speaker inside the clock? :lol:

If you run into mechanical trouble, connecting an actuator, maybe you could engage something that muffles the chime.

 

[sic0048]

One thing to look out for, on mine at least, it gives instructions about what positions the hands should be in when changing the chime melody or turning them on/off. It seems when the clock is in certain positions it's a bad thing to move those levers.

Brian

I think you are not suppose to change the lever within 5 minutes of the chimes playing. So I can handle that with my scheduling pretty easily. I actually have the manual somewhere, but have also looked at the online manual. It is pretty generic, but does talk about these types of considerations.

 

[nsisman]

Check with your local model airplane/model race car shop.

There must be lots of servos etc that would do this ?

 

[pipeman]

Depending on how much force you need you could use an aftermarket automotive door lock actuator. They are cheap and work well. You would need 2 SPDT relays on the elk to control it.

Maybe try something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/HIGH-POWER-DOOR-LOCK...R/dp/B0002KR9PW

Two wire actuators work by simply reversing polarity to change direction.

This looks interesting, cheap enough to experiment with, and you could control it with a single DPDT relay.
Do you know the throw?

 

[gatchel]

Depending on how much force you need you could use an aftermarket automotive door lock actuator. They are cheap and work well. You would need 2 SPDT relays on the elk to control it.

Maybe try something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/HIGH-POWER-DOOR-LOCK...R/dp/B0002KR9PW

Two wire actuators work by simply reversing polarity to change direction.

This looks interesting, cheap enough to experiment with, and you could control it with a single DPDT relay.
Do you know the throw?

You would need 2 SPDT relays, not one DPDT. You would wire both of the common terminals to the actuator polarity doesn't really matter. Wire the NC terminals to Ground. Wire the NO terminals to a positive 12vdc source. pulsing 1 relay would send positive 12vdc one direction to the ground of the other relay. pulsing the other relay would reverse the direction. If you program the system and it's doind the opposite direction than you are indicating simply reverse the twp wires of the actuator.

You may be able to check you local car audio shop or custom car shop for these type of devices. The one I linked to is the most common type. there is another "boxier" looking version that may be listed as heavy duty.

This is how they are wired in an automotive application:

http://www.commandocaralarms.com/doorlockactuators.asp

30=Common, 87A= NC, 87=NO, 85 and 86 are the relay coil terminals.

I just found the motherload:

http://www.thefind.com/cars/info-2-wire-door-lock-actuator

Metra, DEI, MES are all decent brands to deal with.

Here is a DEI version with 10 lbs of force. This might do it:

http://www.wynntrading.com/ProductInfo.aspx?id=5467916

Hope this helps.

 

[drozwood90]

Now you need to find one powerful enough to crank the springs for you!

Then it'll be maintenance free.

And then put IR sensors about the face, so you can tell if the clock needs and adjustment...if that's the case, then you need another servo to adjust the time for you as well!

Wow...getting complicated!

--Dan