monitoring fire sprinkler system

[rfdesq]

EDIT: do I still need to put it inside a new conduit pipe? I'm planning to not run it near the existing wiring. I will make sure it's about 1 ft away from it.

I'm not sure what your local code requires, if anything. Make sure you stay away from the high voltage.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

EDIT: do I still need to put it inside a new conduit pipe? I'm planning to not run it near the existing wiring. I will make sure it's about 1 ft away from it.

I'm not sure what your local code requires, if anything. Make sure you stay away from the high voltage.

It's kinda weird because my house passed the village code when the builder ran coaxial cables over AC pipes. I guess, it should be fine. I also remember somewhere that if running low voltage wire, make sure it's not parallel to the AC. It should be perpendicular.

Btw, I found out that I have spare conduit coiled pipe in the basement. I'll take advantage of it.

You've been a lot of help to me Robert. I wish I'm near your place so we can have a beer.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Oh, I have a follow up question. I'm thinking of not putting 2.2k resistor anymore since wire isn't installed yet. From what I understand, the advantage of putting 2.2k resistor at the furthest is for us to be able to check if wire we installed which are now behind the drywall was not damaged. Am I correct?

 

[rfdesq]

The EOL also prevents a sophisticated burglar (kind of an oxymoron since most are drugged out) from putting a jumper across your switch and gaining access. Once the switch is shorted even though it is still a closed circuit if the short is closer to the panel than the EOL it will set off the alarm. For .10 it's worth using an EOL. No need for the beer, I have learned a lot from your questions.

 

[gizzmo]

I'm not trying to be the "code police" here but if this is a commercial fire application I would be careful what panel you connect a sprinkler flow contact to. If the connection is not to a UL listed commercial fire panel and if monitored, one that has two phone lines, you are on very shaky ground. Any loss at this property will have all the parties in court trying to reclaim their losses. This means the owner, insurance company and any other injured party. If you have no assets then nothing to worry about.

A wise man told me once "There will be a fire in your building involving a fatality today. Tomorrow you will be in court to explain your actions or inactions." I approach every application with this thought in mind. I own an alarm company...welcome to my hell!

Having said all that the switch pictured is double pole switch. Ignore the side that the other wires are connected to. If curious you can set the meter to 110VAC and put the leads to the wired terminals and see the voltage that is there. The other contacts should be dry (no voltage) and would be fine to use.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

gizzmo;

I understand your concern, but isn't the Elk M-1 UL listed now? Not sure why this would be a problem, but I'm certainly not an alarm code expert.

 

[gizzmo]

gizzmo;

I understand your concern, but isn't the Elk M-1 UL listed now? Not sure why this would be a problem, but I'm certainly not an alarm code expert.

UL also lists night lights but not for fire alarm systems. UL Commercial Fire listing is several hundred dollars away from UL Residential Fire. The ELK M1 is not listed for commercial fire. Commercial fire also requires two independent means of communication. I'm not trying to be a jerk here but after a loss is when the lawyers pick this stuff up and throw it in your face.

After looking at the posted pictures I think this looks like residential sprinkler system, if that is the case then the ELK M1 should be fine


The M1 has been evaluated to the following Standards:

UL Standard 985, Household Fire Warning System Units
UL Standard 1023, Household Burglar-Alarm System Units
UL Standard 1635, Digital Alarm Communicator System Units,
UL Standard 1637, Home Health Care Signaling Equipment
ULC C1023-74, Canadian Standard for Household Burglar Alarm System Units,
ULC S545-02, Canadian Standard for Residential Fire Warning System Control Units.
UL Standard 1610, Central-Station Burglar-Alarm Units
UL Standard 365, Police Station Connected Burglar Alarm Units and Systems
UL Standard 609, Local Burglar Alarm Units and Systems
ULC S303, Canadian Standard for Local Burglar Alarm Units and Systems
ULC S304, Canadian Standard for Central and Monitoring Station Burglar Alarm Units
CSA C22.2 No. 205-M1983 . Canadian Standard for Signal Equipment
CSFM California State Fire Marshall

By the way, the correct terminals to connect the wire and the resistor ends to are the outside terminals. All initiating fire alarm circuits are normally open(close on alarm). This means that a short will cause an alarm.

 

[rfdesq]

After looking at the posted pictures I think this looks like residential sprinkler system, if that is the case then the ELK M1 should be fine.

You are correct. This sprinkler system is in Neil's own residence. I think he just wanted another layer of security besides the smoke detectors and heat sensors. Now, G*d forbid, the fire sprinklers go off the CS will be notified also.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

my legs are shaking now after reading gizzmo's post..... should I or should I not then?

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

After looking at the posted pictures I think this looks like residential sprinkler system, if that is the case then the ELK M1 should be fine.

You are correct. This sprinkler system is in Neil's own residence. I think he just wanted another layer of security besides the smoke detectors and heat sensors. Now, G*d forbid, the fire sprinklers go off the CS will be notified also.

Yes, I just want to add layer of security since currently, the sprinkler system only has a bell inside and a strobe outside the house. Assuming my neighbors aren't home too, who is going to see it and who is going to call the fire department

 

[Digger]

The can personely assure you that the M1 and many of its accessories meet or exceed the UL requirements for the standards mentioned above. Having spent many months testing it I liked it so much I bought one for my own house and ripped out the system I already had. It wasnt cheap intilally but a good system never is. Looking back it is actually cheaper than trying to do everything it can with other manufacturers systems.

There arent many systems that come close to the M1 in regards to quality, features, and customer support . If I had the time I would put my system to better use. The possibilites are almost endless and new features are added all of the time.

I think that adding the waterflow monitoring to the the M1 is a great benifet and costs practically nothing. Whenever you can add more protection for low cost I think it just adds more value to your investmanet. God forbid there is ever a fire you have several layers of protection.

I know I have talked with a few code inspectors about the system. They had a lot of questions since its not a typical system. Once they understood it they were very impressed.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

By the way, the correct terminals to connect the wire and the resistor ends to are the outside terminals. All initiating fire alarm circuits are normally open(close on alarm). This means that a short will cause an alarm.

This is how I understood your sentence, please see attached picture.

 

[rfdesq]

Neil, if it gives you any comfort. I am going to do the same thing you are doing in my personal residence. It's a simple install and just another layer.

 

[rfdesq]

This is how I understood your sentence, please see attached picture.

That is correct because it is really an open switch at this point in time and doesn't close or short until water flows.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

This is how I understood your sentence, please see attached picture.

That is correct because it is really an open switch at this point in time and doesn't close or short until water flows.

Great! I just don't know now the purpose of NO terminal in the middle. Don't know why Potter added it.