school me on occupancy detectors

[Bzncrewjr]

so we visited a "parade of homes" today and saw under cabinet "floor" lighting that was triggered by motion.
 
So in new consteuction how should this newb wire for this?   
we will eventually install some panel  (HAI?) for HA.   What's the best way ro preare for this?
A Low voltage to ​HV switch

 

[drvnbysound]

I'm certain there are at least a few ways to do this. First, I'll say that most of the under cabinet lighting that I've seen is done with rope lighting that can be plugged into a standard 110V outlet, such as:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-48-ft-Clear-Incandescent-Rope-Light-Kit-ML-2W-48Ft-Ex-E/205104659
 
If that's the case, you can install a switch that controls said outlet, but rather than install a standard switch you install an occupancy detector, such as:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-180-Pir-Incandescent-CFL-LED-Occupancy-Detector-White-R02-IPS02-1LW/203826482

 

[mikefamig]

You can't plan to wire your home for automation until you ask yourself a few more questions. An occupancy sensor itself can work standalone or it can be attached to a control system like an Elk or HAI automation system. It can also operate many different types of loads in addition to lighting. Under cabinet lighting is just the tip of the automation iceberg.
 
My advise is to sit down and draw up a plan of what you want your automation system to do for you. You can go to home shows and read on the net to learn what is available and then decide what you want to do. After you decide what you need the system to do you will have to choose the components necessary to do these things and then you can finally choose the locations of these components and their wiring.
 
Mike.

 

[pete_c]

Welcome to the Cocoontech forum Russ (?).
 
You can do anything these days if you DIY your LV cabling pre completion in your new home.
 
Read on; the forum has many resources plus keep asking questions.
 
Occupancy is in a world by itself.

 

[LarrylLix]

If you are talking along the kick panel, under the cabinets, I sincerely hope you sweep and mop your floors every day. Nothing like right angle lighting to show drywall screw pops, scratches and paint flecks on a wall, let alone food crumbs and other dirt on your floors right along the work surfaces. Gravity works very well.
 
I won't get into any connector being full of food gunk and mop soap after a few years and the baby safety caps.

 

[Bzncrewjr]

I've done some under cabinet stuff with LED strips.  I have one under a rail going down a staircase and in a pantry.   The stuff is super easy to work with and uses a 110-12v transformer.   My under cabinet lights are on manual 12v dimmers.
 
So in the new house I'd like to have same lighting on motion control and perhaps automated somewhat.   On during certain hours and turn on at night when someone enters the kitchen to warmly light the floor without the entire room.
Can these things (occupancy detectors) be used in automation like the HAI Omnipro?   Or should I keep it simple and just 110 on off switch to the transformer for now?   I have much to learn.  Initially, I will probably just run LV wiring to the places I want to open options later.
 
 
--Russ

 

[pete_c]

Can these things (occupancy detectors) be used in automation like the HAI Omnipro?
 
Here I put a DIN rail in the basement with multiple Meanwell 12VDC LED power supplies going to muliple zones of LEDs.
 
All of it though right now is switched on or off with one UPB switch.  I would like to automate / switch at the 12VDC side sometime or another.  I do prefer LV 12VDC LED over HV 120VAC LED lighting.
 
Testing hockey puck 120VAC LED lighting in the garage workshop. Works fine.
 
Also playing but not using these 12VDC lighting strips (kind of too bright though) purchased at AllElectronics.
 
These are different from rope or LED strip lighting.  (they are very resilent).
 

 
Here use over the head and wall mounted PIRs for occupancy.
 
That said "occupancy" is difficult and not a perfect science.  I use more than PIRs for occupancy.
 
No cellular phone / blue tooth stuff though.  It's all wired to the Leviton OmniPro II panel.  You can do a bunch of if then do that stuff with the OmniPro panel.
 
Here too utilize EL lighting (120VAC) in the hallways.  It is not switched and is always on.  It sort of glows.  You do not notice it until after the house is dark.

 

[Bzncrewjr]

Here too utilize EL lighting (120VAC) in the hallways.  It is not switched and is always on.  It sort of glows.  You do not notice it until after the house is dark.

 
 
I love EL wire.  It's fun to work with, although not very bright.   I used some around our projector screen in the media room.  After a while (couple of years) it does get dimmer.  
Lots of fun colors and it does emit a very soft light.   
 
LED strips are now cheap as dirt.   Color tone is important and subjective.   I don't like the pure white.   Soft white offers a more tungsten like color.  The LED strip under our counters now are bright and I had to install a 12v dimmer.   They are on 24/7 and allow the kitchen some night lighting when entering at night.
This is what I intend to do in the new house.   At least pull LV cable under the bottom of cabinets for future lighting.   As mentioned, dust and crud will be revealed.   The kitchen will have wood floors and hopefully hide well.
 
Currently in our master bath we have a battery powered LED nightlight that comes on with motion.   I was hoping for something a bit classier.  Actually, EL wire might work well under the bathroom vanity cabinets as it's not very bright and would make a great night light.
 
Under cabinet kitchen

 
 
And then there are these cool Dek-Dots that I'm thinking about for the bathroom shower.
 

 
I'd love to put them in the driveway like this, but I think that might be a bit complicated.

 

[pete_c]

Yeah over the years here the EL lighting has become a bit dimmer. 
 
We have wood floors here in the kitchen. Noticed about that dust catching stuff today here.  I also have a few vents that are under the edge of the kitchen cabinets.  I have seen too now central vac outlets positioned under the edge of the kitchen cabinets now.  LED light pricing is very reasonable these days. 
 
Putting LV wiring under the cabinets should be relatively painless during construction.  One neighbor here redid their paver block driveway with LED lighting on both sides of it and the walk from the driveway to the front door.  It looks nice.  They did not do anything though in the middle of the driveway.

 

[ano]

If you just want motion controlled undercounter lights that is easy and cheap. I was in an expensive hotel recently thay did that when you walked into the bathroom.  It maybe cost them $50 per room to do that.
 
So the solution is to incorporate what you want to do with a home automation system.  If you get an Omni Pro II, and use UPB lighting, Leviton has created this idea of "scenes" with room and home controllers to control these lighting scenes.  The idea is not to control each light but rather pick uses for the room and control the lights based on that. In my kitchen I have Cook, Dine, Evening, Party and All on, and All off.  These scenes alone may or may not control the undercounter lights.  And scenes can be picked by time of day, motion, day of the week, a button, you name it.  What you can do is endless.
 
The point of all this is if you are going to the trouble of putting in a home automation system, you have to think at a higher level than "walk in kitchen and undercounter lights go on."  You don't need home automation for that.  One costs maybe $100, and one is maybe $20,000+ when your done, so really think about what you really want.

 

[pete_c]

Just related to the kitchen here a few years ago divided up the circuits a bit and added a few UPB switches.  While primarily each switch handles one to two circuits; there are also a few multitoggle switches which do scenes and I noticed that WAF is high with this stuff. 
 
There is no lighting today in the kitchen that is not managed by UPB today.  Before and concurrent with the updating of switches I did do a granular thing with the HV electricity.  (preconstuction thoughts here). 
 
In the kitchen did the same for lighting, appliances, et al.  It was sort of already separated in the kitchen and I did some more as it was easy to feed new wires in the conduit but a bit of a pain to go all the way to the fuse panel.  The HV electric  / circuits / switch installation was a bit time consuming.  The original electrical contractor was an obi wan and did do a very good job here.  I just took his infrastructure (conduit) and expanded on it if that makes any sense. 
 
IE: under the cabinet near the floor LED lighting stuff is easy and reasonably priced.  Where you get the switched HV power source is more difficult as typically that kitchen cabinet is chock full of cooking instruments.  This part involves infrastructure planning or you getting involved and DIYing this stuff.
 
I lucked out in one way because all of the smallest metal electrical boxes are 4X4 with single switch mudplates on them all with metal conduit.
 
Another newly constructed home with plastic  / romax is way different as I cannot really add new electric or romex anymore so initial HV layout hasn't really changed in the last 15 years.  Here I pre wired LV stuff for automation but not relating to lighting (~ 1999-2000).
 
Understood about using LED lighting in your preconstruction ideas.  That said though I would recommend a grandular HV implementation with LV at the end of the HV automation.  Reading on the forum here you will see that stuff relating to kitchen lighting and you should consider the power sources and methodologies of use for LV LED lighting in the kitchen (infrastructure).  IE: aesthetically pleasing HV to LV transformers right before the LV LED lighting under the counter type stuff.   Here WAF plays a factor in the kitchen domain relating to anything (LV or HV).
 
This is very reasonable in cost pre construction (well sort of) and will provide the automation based on current standards that will not be going away any time soon.
 
You can too google a kitchen LED implementation hack job to see what happens when you do not have the proper HV installation in place. 

 

[Bzncrewjr]

All good points.
 
I've seen the central vac dust pan a the end of cabinets.   Builder spec'd central vac and we need to be sure to include this.  It makes a lot of sense.
 
As I see it now (still thinking and learning) all the LV lighting will be driven from a HV transformer on a switch.  This is where the HA stuff comes in. 
My plan as of now is to use LED strips in the tray ceilings.  WAF is always a concern with over doing it.    Something like this.

 
Ano, I love the idea of scenes and I can definitely see this in some rooms.  Kitchen, living room and bedroom certainly.  
I imagine with various lighting available, the more types of scenes that can be generated.
 
 
Our new media room has been scaled back because it needs to be a multi purpose room.   There is a guy who hand paints glow in the dark stars on ceilings.  Not just fiber optic or splattered paint, but entire constellations that are lit with black lighting.  Simply amazing.   But not to be this time.
 
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/99/06/22/990622db4936558a4905a530567cb1fe.gif
 
 
On another question, I've seen the HAI Omnipro board.  It has screw terminals for what appears to be 2 rows of connections.  Not that many.   How do you physically connect the dozens of alarm sensors and input signals to this thing?  Do I also need an expansion board?
 

 
--Russ
 
 

 

[RAL]

 On another question, I've seen the HAI Omnipro board.  It has screw terminals for what appears to be 2 rows of connections.  Not that many.   How do you physically connect the dozens of alarm sensors and input signals to this thing?  Do I also need an expansion board?

 
The OP II has 16 zone inputs on the lower row of screw terminals.  The upper row is for things like power, keypads, phone line, etc.
 
If you need more zones, then you need to add expansion boards, like the 10A06, which will get you an additional 16 zones on each of 2 boards, or 17A00 expansion enclosures.

 

[pete_c]

Depends...have a read here comparing systems.
 
Compare Omni Systems
 
You can wire for everthing then terminate a your own pace whatever it is you have wired up.
 
The Leviton OmniPro II is the HAI flagship model.  More geared for a large home or a commercial installation.
 
Baby steps relating to planning. 
 
Look at the drawings of your new home and pencil in what you are wanting to configure.
 
(IE: inputs, outputs, maybe HVAC, maybe zoned audio, lighting, et al).
 
Pre-construction I would edit the drawings
 
During pre construction do all of your HV, LV, lighting planning. 
 
During construction wiring LV / HV at this stage is very cost reasonable. 
 
Wire for everthing and figure out a central wiring location or closet.  Plan your HV for your LV stuff.  (LED et al).
 
Have a read here:
 
Wiring Your New House 101
 
One home the security / LV / automation prewiring was done by an alarm company and me. 
 
The other home I did all of the LV after the build.
 

My plan as of now is to use LED strips in the tray ceilings.

 
Figure out how you are going to install the LV/HV infrastructure for the LED strips in the tray ceilings and wanting them to dim. 
 
IE if 12VDC lighting where will the transformer be?   How will you dim them? 
 
One Cocoontech member hired a lighting designer for the placement of the lighting in their home.  You might want to consider this.

 

[ano]

When you calculate zones, don't forget that a wired OmniStat2 and an outside temp sensor each use a zone, so adding a zone expanded board is probably a given.  Also, don't disregard wireless zones. An HAI or GE receiver each add 64 zones. (I recommend GE.) No matter how much you preplan and prewire, wireless sensors are great. It is great for keyfobs, driveway sensors, gate sensors, I even use a wireless sensor on our package box.