tools for fishing wire for smoke detectors?

JimS

Senior Member
Looking at running 18-4 cable for smoke detectors.  Basement has finished ceiling with access from one side unfinished room.  Need to run wire about 20' across where ceiling is well below joists - lots of room so no big problem there.  From there it goes parallel to joists about 15'.  I have a recessed light where it changes direction that I can remove for access.  I am thinking a "fish rod" (think that is the proper term) should work well.  Put about a 1" hole where the detector will go and catch the wire there.
 
I am only going to use this tool occaisionally and have located a cheap 3/16 x 33' rod kit.  I think most are 1/4".  Is the smaller size going to be a problem?  I don't have any insulation to deal with and the areas are fairly open.  I do need to bend the rod a bit where it will go into recessed light hole and over a beam but nothing too severe.  Is the 3/16 going to be difficult to use because of more flexibility?
 
Should I be looking at other tools?
 
A snake...that's all you really need. Preferably one that is a heavier gauge steel than those found at the big box nowadays....those are really only good for conduit but will still work, just slightly harder.
 
Rods work, although they tend to hang up on obstructions or angle opposite of how you need them. It's preference, however both the rods and a snake are within my tool choices.
 
15 feet!  Tie a big nut to a piece of string and throw it between the joists at the hole.  Get it close enough to snag it with a piece of stiff wire and pull your 18/4 across.
 
If you want to buy something for occasional and more general purpose use, buy a fish tape.  Home Depot has a Klein Tools Depthfinder 25 ft. Steel Fish Tape for $11.
 
Generally, I like working with fiberglass rods much more than fish tape. But, for a single job where either would work pretty well, you could save some money and go with the steel fish tape.
 
jpmargis said:
15 feet!  Tie a big nut to a piece of string and throw it between the joists at the hole.  Get it close enough to snag it with a piece of stiff wire and pull your 18/4 across.
 
Here's a bit more detail - it would involve reaching through a can light hole and thowing the nut over a beam about 4' away and getting  it onto the drywall that raises to joist level about 18" beyond that.  The final location is about 7 feet beyond that.  And miss any wiring and pipes that might be in the way.  I need to pull the can and see how clear the shot is but it seems like a good chance to get hung up on a wire or something. 
 
I found the 33' rod set for $8 on sale at HF so I will try that.  Thanks for the suggestions.  Might  pick up the fish tape too since they aren't expensive - haven't worked with those but  it's an excuse for a new tool.  :)
 
Fiberglass rods are great.  I've got two sets of them.  They thread together to extend their reach.  The only downside to them, and this would be true of fish tape also, is gravity weighs them down.  Eventually the longer the length, the more it bows down.  This ends up having it get stubbed up against whatever might be on the bottom of the surface you're going across.  Like strapping or other furring strips used to hang the ceiling drywall.  I find it's helpful, sometimes, to put the J-shaped hook on the end of the rod to help use it as a plow/bumper to pop the rod up and over obstacles.
 
That same J-hook can be used with two sets of the rods.  Sometimes you can get the rod only half of the way.  So then use a second set of them with it's own hook to reach in from the destination to catch the first rod.  I had to do this for running some AV wires around an L-shaped soffit in the old house.  There just wasn't a decent way to get from one end to the other, so I met in the middle and taped the line to the 1st rod and pulled it all the way around.  The rods took a serious bending but it worked.
 
Be careful about using any drill bits in places you can't see.  Watching the construction of our new house tells me a lot about what may or may not be routed along a given joist bay.  Plumbing especially might not take the path you'd assume...
 
Don't rule out cutting strategic holes along the way.  Sometimes it's a lot easier to patch and repaint than it is to drive yourself crazy trying to fish the impossible.  Those 6x6 access panels take paint nicely and don't look out of place on a ceiling.  Just keep that in mind...
 
I have both.  A friend gave me a set of fiberglass rods in the 1990's.  I didn't utilize them much in the old house. 
 
I also did purchase a "few" long drill bits of all sizes and up to 5 feet long which I have used.
 
I have utilized them today in the new home as I have on attic that is difficult to navigate around in.  I have also added more electrical/electrical circuits with the snake. 
 
The little attic space is over 1.5 bedrooms and I used the fiberglass rods for the all of the LV stuff to these rooms and it made it easy. 
 
I never really "built" a catwalk in it but can crawl around on it if I am careful.  The attic though opens to two other attic spaces which made it easy to run cable with the fiberglass rods.  I also added LV to the family room in a similiar manner.  The main floor though has over a foot of space overhead and made it easy. 
 
I also utilize the fiberglass rods for one under an eave second story camera wiring.  It was still a bit difficult as I used the fiberglass rod from the outside in (on a 20 something foot ladder) and pulled the catXX cable outside with it.  It was a bit easier than going to the edge of the attic to get the wire and took 10 minutes to do.
 
If you do end up using the steel fish tape, keep that bent closed D-shaped end on it.  You can add short and long curves to the last 1-3 feet - don't hesitate to make opposing curves.
 
I've had to cut my steel fish tape twice, after it snagged.  Abandoned the ends. 
 
Fiberglass rods and fishtapes going both have their place, and sometimes you go back and forth on the same job as you tackle different sections of it.
 
Another little trick that can be helpful is a nut on a fishing line, then put a magnet on the end of pole to "catch it" from your destination end.  For a couple bucks they sell magnets on the end of extendable rods (look like old car antennas).  This trick is very helpful when you have only a very small entry point where you plan to extract the wire.  It is especially helpful dropping things down walls when you are just drilling a small hole to pull the wire out through.  It isn't of much use when there is insulation in the wall.
 
they sell magnets on the end of extendable rods (look like old car antennas).  
 
I use one of these when I am working on my car.  I purchased a couple of different ones at the local big box automart; inexpensive.
 
Great idea Lou!
 
The key using a snake is to straighten it out as it comes out the reel, preferably get the length you need and straighten it out. The last 1-2' that you have the hook on, bend in an arc. With a 1/2 spin to the snake it'll hop over obstructions and you can get it to ride over them or vice versa, you can get it to ride the ceiling (or wall).
 
Takes a little feel and trial and error, but most get the feel of it after a little work. 
 
Keep in mind, as I've owned both, but the cheapie rods tend to not have a heavy gelcoat layer on them and are very prone to splintering if really flexed, not to mention the ends are typically white metal and tend to snap if bent too much.
 
I put rods in the realm of if there's a reasonable straight shot, otherwise I'll just use a snake, but sometimes both tools come out at the same time, even using the rods with string or wire tied to them and a snake to grab the wire (push the rod, then when it bottoms out, pull back a little on the rod only to leave the slack where the snake can hopefully catch it).
 
You cannot steer a rod, without a specialized flexible tip; I see this exists on the Creep-Zit rods from LSDI.
 
CZFT.jpg

 
You can steer a fish tape.
 
That specialized flexible Creep-Zit tip must be awesome, allowing steering of rods.
 
I generally bend my fish tape to look like the image on the far right.
 
hn_1_g.jpg
 
Rods only really go straight, however with a string (or wire) tied to the end, you can do some wild things....if you have the space, you can also hop them over obstructions, although there is a limit, not to mention some skill involved.
 
Yeah, I do a lot of hopping, in soffits.

I use my rods for every single cable I retrofit, usually more than once, in different areas, because of my mechanical room layout. I have to get over my large HVAC supply trunks for half the runs, and the other half travel through another mechanical room accessible over a basement bathroom with a low ceiling (hopping required there too).

I used to think a thermal imaging camera and heated tip could be used to help with fishing, but really it's not the rods or tape you need to see, but the obstructions.
 
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