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UPB Swithes for Bathroom Update

Jim Doolittle

Active Member
kwilcox said:
Since you said you were running new wires to the fan/light combo, you might want to consider direct connecting the US2-40's local load to the fan so you can have push & hold speed control via the US2-40 dimmer.
Ooo...I can do that? But I don't think that most people would expect that the top left rocker would operate anything but a light. At least that is what I would expect. Couldn't I use a dimming inline module for the fan and configure another rocker as a Super-Rocker (or whatever the term is for a link button that allows dimming)?
 

Event5

Active Member
Hay Jim,
I was just looking at UPStart and a us240. It looks like you can assign any rocker on the switch to the load.
Dave
 

Alanb

New Member
I was under the impression that you could not use the dimming modules to control motors, but that there are SA modules for simple on/off control that works for ceiling fans and other motors... (e.g. UFR-30 fixture relay for inline wiring)
 

Jim Doolittle

Active Member
Alanb said:
I was under the impression that you could not use the dimming modules to control motors, but that there are SA modules for simple on/off control that works for ceiling fans and other motors... (e.g. UFR-30 fixture relay for inline wiring)
That's what I thought. Besides, I bought a fan that is much quieter than the old one so I am not sure what I gain by being able to control fan speed other than...because I can..or can I?
 

toymaster458

Active Member
As long as the fan is not larger then 300W or 2.5A I would just install a UFD and disable the Dimming. This way it can be reused later as a dimmer.
 

kwilcox

Active Member
I don't know about the US2-40, but I control the ceiling fan speed in my dining room with a US1130W w/o any issues at all.
 

noshali

Active Member
toymaster458 said:
As long as the fan is not larger then 300W or 2.5A I would just install a UFD and disable the Dimming. This way it can be reused later as a dimmer.
Agree with toymaster as that is the info given to me by simply automated.
 

kwilcox

Active Member
It is correct that SAI's installation instructions for both the US2-40 and US1130 state that you should turn dimming off when controlling fans from the local load. I've not seen any ill effects from not doing this myself though. I'm actually not sure why they have this precaution. At any rate, I'd still connect the local load to one of your 3 devices and save yourself the cost of a UFD.

edit: heck I forgot about the 2 800CFM duct fans in the basement that I control with a US1130. That system's been running flawlessly for 2 years now. Go here to find out more.

The US1130W runs the duct fans at 60% when AC is active and 40% when heating is active. If AC isn't bringing the house temp down at a specific rate, I automatically turn the fans up to 100%.

Now I really don't understand the warning... :lol:
 

noshali

Active Member
kwilcox said:
It is correct that SAI's installation instructions for both the US2-40 and US1130 state that you should turn dimming off when controlling fans from the local load. I've not seen any ill effects from not doing this myself though. I'm actually not sure why they have this precaution. At any rate, I'd still connect the local load to one of your 3 devices and save yourself the cost of a UFD.

edit: heck I forgot about the 2 800CFM duct fans in the basement that I control with a US1130. That system's been running flawlessly for 2 years now. Go here to find out more.

The US1130W runs the duct fans at 60% when AC is active and 40% when heating is active. If AC isn't bringing the house temp down at a specific rate, I automatically turn the fans up to 100%.

Now I really don't understand the warning... :lol:
I really think it is to avoid stuff like burning motors etc. I would be really interested to find out if anyone is using this stuff to control a ceiling fan.

The other reason could be if something goes wrong or burns a motor then "we told you so"

regards,
 

kwilcox

Active Member
That would be me. No issues so far with my ceiling fan but I don't use it very often either... maybe once or twice during the summer. The duct fan motors run constantly though. My furnace cycles 5 times/hour in the winter.
 

ano

Senior Member
Yes, "dimming" a fan not designed for it is bad. At the least, it can burn out the motor, and it can start a fire.

Fans are designed so the action of the fan cools the motor. When you run it at a lower speed, the air moved drops at a much higher rate than does the heat or power consumption. This means that the fan runs hotter than it was designed.

In addition, there are fan speed controls that work on most fans, but a light dimmer is not one of them. Fan speed controls, like those in your ceiling ran, use a capacitor which works with the inductor in the fan. This causes almost no extra heat in the fan, so is generally O.K. The 120V ac voltage is basically shrunk to a lower voltage.

A light dimmer uses a triac and just chops the 120V power at a certain point in the wave. More chopping, the dimmer the light is. O.K. for lights, but not for fans. It causes buzzing in most fans and extra heat in all of them.

Even if a dimmer doesn't cause a fire, it is against the National Electrical Code to power a device against what the manufacturer recommends. I bet if you read that manual that came with your fan, it will say no dimmers.

You probably should visit this link. It explains things better than I can.
http://www.act-solutions.com/kingery02.htm
 

kwilcox

Active Member
Nice article. Essentially, with Triac controlled dimmers its saying "YMMV based on the type of motor". Here's a quote from the article which shows this:

Some fans can be controlled by a standard dimmer. It is well known that "shaded pole" and "permanent split capacitor" type motors are the best candidates for use with triac based (X-10) dimmers.

This is probably why I've never had a problem with my ceiling fan or my inline duct fans.
 

Jim Doolittle

Active Member
Well, I still don't have my bathroom rewired. I was so busy enjoying 70° temperatures near Chicago this November that I didn't make it to the attic (where I have 3-4' of workspace) and now its cold!

I still want to go with UPB but with two lights, a fan, and mandatory (per 3 daughters and one wife) outlet (GFCI of course!), I would have to expand the existing double gang box to allow for four. My wife doesn't understand why I do not use the triple switch that occupies a single gang and a GFCI outlet for the other. But...but...honey...how would I control that remotely? :).

Any suggestions for expanding the existing double gang and making the smallest hole in the wall so that I get in the least amount of trouble by going ahead? Another double gang that could be connected to the existing one at the side so I do not need to make hole bigger on top and bottom? Should I go for it or listen to my wife and go non-HA and leave this room alone?
 
Jim Doolittle said:
Well, I still don't have my bathroom rewired. I was so busy enjoying 70° temperatures near Chicago this November that I didn't make it to the attic (where I have 3-4' of workspace) and now its cold!

I still want to go with UPB but with two lights, a fan, and mandatory (per 3 daughters and one wife) outlet (GFCI of course!), I would have to expand the existing double gang box to allow for four. My wife doesn't understand why I do not use the triple switch that occupies a single gang and a GFCI outlet for the other. But...but...honey...how would I control that remotely? :).

Any suggestions for expanding the existing double gang and making the smallest hole in the wall so that I get in the least amount of trouble by going ahead? Another double gang that could be connected to the existing one at the side so I do not need to make hole bigger on top and bottom? Should I go for it or listen to my wife and go non-HA and leave this room alone?
OK, this will be a little trickier, but why not put the required UFR/URD's in a junction box in the attic, move the switch legs to the lights and fans into the junction box and control the whole thing with a US2-40 and you will still have the 2nd space of the 2 gang left for you GFI?
 
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