UPB whole house filter

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I need some help from the experts.

I have a 3400 sq foot house that has been running a combination of X10 devices by PCS and X10. I also have installed a Leviton Smart Coupler/Repeater (XPCR). This system has worked for years and has never been a problem with devices on both legs of the circuit breakers. Recently I decided to install some UPB devices to replace the cheaper X10 switches. I want to leave the more expensive X10 devices in place at this time.

Here are the problems that I started to encounter. First, I installed several UPB switches. Out of the 8 devices, 3 of them would not pick up in UpStart. I attributed this to not having a phase coupler for UPB. Next, I purchased a phase coupler from PCS (PPSC) that I mounted into the breaker box. The three UPB devices that Upstart could not recognize before sudddenly started to be picked up and verified by UpStart. I measered the noise and signal strength by UpStart and the Signal was low on the devices most of the time (3-5) on the opposite leg and the noise always seems to be none. UPB devices on the same phase seem to register signal strength at about 12-14. So, the UPB coupler seems to get me by marginally. I am currently running the network communications test over night to see the results.

Now, here is the big problem. Some of my X10 devices stopped working. It seems as though the PCS UPB coupler has affected my Leviton X10 repeater. I have read on other forums that the X10 coupler also helps with the UPB coupling between phases. I do not beleive this is the case with my Leviton coupler. When removing the Leviton coupler in conjuction with the UPB coupler, the X10 signals still do not work for some of the devices. I have a Montery Instruments X10 signal analyzer and it shows X10 signals that are good to be around the 250mv range. On the other leg, they do not seem to be registering. It seems like I remember the Leviton boosting the signals by a factor of 10, but it has been a long time since I measured the singals

I have 2 15A breakers, (each on a phase at the breakers). BOTH, the Leviton X1- coupler and the PCS UPB coupler are connected at these two breakers. I do not think moving either the Leviton or the UPB further from each other would help, (at least in my humble thinking ), as the signals would still travel pretty much the same path.

Do the UPB couplers and X10 couplers play nice together? Is there truly a X10/UPB coupler/repeater that also amplifies the signals?

Any other things you guys can think of that I can try?

Also, is there anything I can do to try to boost the UPB signal as well. Does adding more PCS UPB couplers help boost the signal?
Sorry for all of the questions.

Thanks!
Chuck

 

[DeLicious]

more noise tonight... preventing me from leaving the house (the garage door power is managed by UPB). I ran a communications test, and the noise is on both phases. The interesting part is, I have 16 devices; from an earlier communications test, 15 are on the other phase from the PIM, and averaged a 10-12 signal strength. The only device that was on the same signal was very strong (60+). So, for the noise to be at max 60/30/30 on both phases means it is probably coming from outside, right?

 

[sharby]

more noise tonight... preventing me from leaving the house (the garage door power is managed by UPB). I ran a communications test, and the noise is on both phases. The interesting part is, I have 16 devices; from an earlier communications test, 15 are on the other phase from the PIM, and averaged a 10-12 signal strength. The only device that was on the same signal was very strong (60+). So, for the noise to be at max 60/30/30 on both phases means it is probably coming from outside, right?

Use a Simply-Automated pocket programmer to verify the noise. Call your electric company and have them dispatch to your house. Show them the readings and let them know that you had your electrian over and the noise is coming from the power company. They SHOULD be able to fix the problem.

-=*Sharby*=-

 

[Chakara]

Damn you guys for giving me the idea that I could just shoot out the light across the street to solve this issue.....

 

[TonyStewart]

it's come down to this... please, please, somebody make a UPB whole house filter. still happening, once a week, no UPB communications are working due to powerline noise. i know it takes some pretty severe powerline noise to knock out UPB, but whatever it takes, I got it. plus, I'm fairly certain that the noise is originating outside my house because there are no changes within my house whenever the outage occurs. when i happen to be home and notice communications failing, i always check to see if something changed (air conditioner turned on? wife using a blender or electric stove?) and as far as I can tell, it's not us. so i'm begging, please, please somebody release a UPB whole house filter so no outside noise can get on the powerlines in my house and I can start trusting my UPB installation again.

Wouldn't an X10 whole house noise blocking filter work just as well? I thought it filtered out all the noise. I use UPB and have an X10 whole house filter that seems to work but I can't tell for sure. I know that you are pretty sure it isn't coming from inside your house but I would keep looking. I spent 6 months confused as to what was causing the noise in my house and it turned out to be the microwave. It was a fluke that at the exact moment I was installing another module it stopped writing when my wife started making popcorn. I can see now that it is nearly impossible to catch some things because they aren't on long enough to catch in the act.

X-10 filter would PROBABLY work!
If you put an OScope on your power, you will note that the "outisde source" that is thought to be the source of your noise is in fact probably not strong enough to make it to your home. Unless..... the noice source is VERY VERY close to you. It's possible but not very likely. Instead, you could have this.

Filer capacitors in devices like surround receivers, TV sets and other devices locate throughout your home can and do break down completey or leak intermittently. I have caught this with a Oscope a number of times in situation where noise seemed to come and go. they are a bear to find. Worse yet, it could be storm induced damage that damaged a number of devices.

To troubleshoot my theory for certain. Turn off all electrical breakersexcpt for the one supplying power to the controller and the lUPB devices in question. If the deives work, then the problem is devices on one or more of your breakers. So turn them on one at a time and test again. Of course if your controller and lights in question are on the same breaker with the offensive noise source, then you will need to install x-10 plug in filters on other devices on that branch

The X-10 filters do block electrical noise and don' really care if you have x-10 or UPB, so they can and do help. Remember that the plug in versions only hanle 5 amp loads. the wire in versions handle 20 amps.

Hope this helps.