Sorely Disappointed in UPB

[Sacedog]

I'll just make a prediction: If the UPB manufacturers get serious about continuously improving this technology to make it robust in all the conditions that their potential customers use it, then this will be a very successful technology that could finally bring home automation to the mainstream. If they don't, then they will all be out of business as soon as someone else does. And someone definitely will...

UPB manufactures are interested in improving the quality of their products, which is evident when they introduced the Gen II products. The new generation fixed most of the noise issues that affected the Gen I devices.

I might possibly try a HAI Gen II switch and PIM, to see if you have the same issues; although based on some of the previous posts, it does sound like you may have some other issue that might be creating severe noise, so I might look at that first. I think it was a good suggestion to try to take your laptop and PIM to a neighbor's house, to see if the noise levels are the same.

FWIW, I spent over a year reasearching HA before I got my feet wet, and had initially decided on ALC lighting. I even ran all of the wiring to every switch, when we built our house last year. I actually decided to forego ALC, instead opting for UPB, and have been very happy with the results. I currently have about 20 switches installed, and haven't had a single problem with them.

 

[royalj7]

Well, I have a couple suggestions in this situation.

1. For your extreme noise situation I don't think PLC will ever work. I think you either have to expend a serious amount of time and perhaps money working with the power company to eliminate the incoming problem or move to a different lighting solution. Working with any utility is time consuming and typilcally a pain in the butt, so I can't really say which solution is better. I think you went through the typical troubleshooting methods and it sounds like whatever is causing the noise is out of your control.

2. Can you return your UPB switches? If so, I probably wouldn't think twice about it.

3. If you can deal with a couple limitations/faults (lack of diverse products, mushy paddle feel) JetStream might be a good product to try. I would give that the edge over Z-wave in the RF field.

Now a couple comments:

1. You are not the first or first 1000 person that has tried something in HA and been disappointed. Right, wrong, or just f*ed up, if you are not ready to expend a large amount of time, and probably money, on HA (lighting, HVAC control, audio/video distribution, everything) you should seriously consider giving up on HA, or paying for professional integration. We all pay "good money" for these products, I myself just spent a crap load on a distributed audio system that I'm still not completely happy with, but its rare for something to get installed and just "work" without tinkering or several iterations.

2. If you read CT before you made your purchasing decision, how in the world could you not go hardwired? It's been said in more posts that I can count that the only truly 100% reliable solution is hardwired. UPB works great for me, but I only use it because I decided it was the best retrofit design. I would have went ALC or some such if I was building a house.

3. The only person that knows what UPB's true reliability is the manufacturer, and that is not something companies typically revel for competitive reasons. Their claim of 99.9% reliability might be true, I have no clue, neither does anyone else on this board People are vocal when things are going wrong and silent as a lamb usually when things work well. I know the boatloads of stuff I get off Newegg, I only go back and review when I have a problem with something.

4. And truly welcome! It's unfortunate you thought the first one was insincere, but it is always good to get new folks on the board to share their experience and knowledge, both bad and good.

--Jamie

 

[drozwood90]

Well, I have a couple suggestions in this situation.

1. For your extreme noise situation I don't think PLC will ever work. I think you either have to expend a serious amount of time and perhaps money working with the power company to eliminate the incoming problem or move to a different lighting solution. Working with any utility is time consuming and typilcally a pain in the butt, so I can't really say which solution is better. I think you went through the typical troubleshooting methods and it sounds like whatever is causing the noise is out of your control.
2. Can you return your UPB switches? If so, I probably wouldn't think twice about it.
3. If you can deal with a couple limitations/faults (lack of diverse products, mushy paddle feel) JetStream might be a good product to try.

Now a couple comments:

1. You are not the first or first 1000 person that has tried something in HA and been disappointed. Right, wrong, or just f*ed up, if you are not ready to expend a large amount of time, and probably money, on HA (lighting, HVAC control, audio/video distribution, everything) you should seriously consider giving up on HA, or paying for professional integration. We all pay "good money" for these products, I myself just spent a crap load on a distributed audio system that I'm still not completely happy with, but its rare for something to get installed and just "work" without tinkering or several iterations.

2. If you read CT before you made your purchasing decision, how in the world could you not go hardwired? It's been said in more posts that I can count that the only truly 100% reliable solution is hardwired. UPB works great for me, but I only use it because I decided it was the best retrofit design. I would have went ALC or some such if I was building a house.

3. The only person that knows what UPB's true reliability is the manufacturer, and that is not something companies typically revel for competitive reasons. Their claim of 99.9% reliability might be true, I have no clue, neither does anyone else on this board People are vocal when things are going wrong and silent as a lamb usually when things work well. I know the boatloads of stuff I get off Newegg, I only go back and review when I have a problem with something.

4. And truly welcome! It's unfortunate you thought the first one was insincere, but it is always good to get new folks on the board to share their experience and knowledge, both bad and good.

--Jamie

Well Said Jamie!

I also +1 UPB. Have been using it in two different houses. My first house had noise readings (sometimes) 1-5 counts. Then I moved. Had this house built...finished it about 1 year ago. I've not seen my noise issues ever get above 0.

In my situation, everything just works.

I'd also agree with the "return" the switches and "switching to hardwired". If your noise is really THAT bad...there's not much you can do. I'd have that splice checked out, as I agreed with another post, if there is THAT much noise, it sounds like something needs to be looked at...the splice may not be totally right. I'd be worried about blowing out things like the motors on my fridge, pumps, air tank, etc.

I'm sorry you feel bad about the whole thing, as many many people have had great experiences. I think Rupp said it the WRONG WAY, he said you should try Z-Wave...but I still think that is a good idea. If the noise levels ARE within tolerance AND the splice is good, then a PLC protocol is probably NOT going to work, as the area your house is in...probably has a "lower" then perfect expectation for noise.

99.9% is still 1/1000. So, as you pointed out, they claim it should work in MANY more situations. Do you have access to some X10 stuff? Plug some of that in, I'm thinking that's not going to work either.

Again, we are generally a good group, I've got more help from the HA community then most other groups. However, if you read your first post, it kind of did put things off on the wrong foot, 99.9% / 1 out of 1000; hence the backlash. I realize you are passionate that the noise on the line should not be the problem...especially after "dropping" so much coin for a solution that claims to be so "tolerant"...but I think there are many good examples...above... I'll toss mine in...CAT5E is rated to be able to communicate over so many feet. It also has a twisted pair to keep noise down. IF you were to take a relatively "same" amount of noise from the powerline, and impose it on the CAT5, it might not work so well either. Probably would at smaller distances, but not at longer.

Oh well, maybe I'm just putting my foot in my mouth, but I wouldn't knock the technology, it really is BETTER then X10 (which is one of their claims). Z-Wave is a bit more immune to line noise, due to being RF...however, if you get the wrong brand, WiFi will kill your Z-Wave. Or if you have metal junction boxes, that hurts it as well. There are drawbacks to all the technologies, especially hardwired...that is unless your walls are open. Then you can homerun all the hardwired stuff and not worry about noise levels.

Just my $0.02. Good luck with your adventure! I'm sorry it started out so poorly for you, but when everything gets settled, I think you will be happy with what you have!

--Dan

 

[Event5]

Without re-reading the whole thread, did you ever contact Simply Automated Technical Support, Here

Customer Support 8am - 5pm PST, Monday - Friday

800-630-9234 x138
[email protected]

I once had a noise problem in a large install and found that many of the breaker screws were loose around the house. We went around tightening all the screws and also tightened the neutral buss screws. This improved the signal and reduced the noise.

Just some thoughts, Welcome to Cocoontech
Dave

 

[brotsten]

I only use a few UPB switches, but I had major problems with them.

My power was so bad it was turning off my refrigerator. Turns out it was my well pump controller causing all the problems. You can see a thread about diagnosing and correcting the problem here.

Brian

 

[deranged]

Going back to the basics, I believe you stated that the electric supply splice is only on the supply to your new house.

If this is true then with all the breakers off in the new house did you try getting a noise reading in your existing house ?


It is probably a fair bet that your electric line to the new house is on a transformer shared by other houses so with that in mind:

Did you try to turn off all the breakers in your existing house and check for noise ?

Are there any buildings close using commercial type of equipment possibly generating the noise ?

possibly a faulty upb controller, have you tried any where else like relatives, friends maybe, work ?


I would start by verifying the controller and modules are good first, then attempt to talk to the electric company. You may not get a caring response but there is always a chance. In my area they offer the option of a dedicated trasformer just for your house it is a few dollars a month though.

The tiniest thing can cause an enormous amount of noise, I had a notebook power supply once that must of been possesed by the devil. took me weeks to figure out because my wife kept moving it around the house while I was testing. UGH!

just my 2 cents.

StevenE

Edit, Almost forgot, did you try plugging in a surge protected power strip, I have found that many of them are good at reducing noise. Some also block x10 signals too so the results may vary.

 

[drozwood90]

The tiniest thing can cause an enormous amount of noise, I had a notebook power supply once that must of been possesed by the devil. took me weeks to figure out because my wife kept moving it around the house while I was testing. UGH!

HAHAH!

 

[BLH]

Noise from a cell phone charger.

http://jvde.us/x10/x10_cellet_noise.htm

 

[deranged]

The tiniest thing can cause an enormous amount of noise, I had a notebook power supply once that must of been possesed by the devil. took me weeks to figure out because my wife kept moving it around the house while I was testing. UGH!

HAHAH!

Yeah I can laugh about it now, but when it happened it was far from funny.
I guess that is the price we pay when we have to have all the techie stuff.

StwvwnE