Upcoming change in CQC pricing

[beelzerob]

That's an interesting thought. I have doubts anything we've mentioned in this thread is news to him, but I wonder if that's workable. If you can get someone in at a lower price with a system that they like and want to keep (which I don't really see as possible with just the "basic" package), then I would think that would make them much more amenable to paying to upgrade all or parts of their system over time, even if that "over time" cost is more than they would have paid if they'd just come in at the current version.

I've never heard of anyone leaving CQC for something better, so I think the case for continuing to have DIY users be a part of the development/testing of CQC would have to involve getting people IN, so they could become convinced of its usefulness and power. And by that, I also don't mean just a longer trial period...because at the new prices, I wouldn't have even tried CQC's trial period. Just too big of a mental barrier to get past....especially for adding more clients and drivers (which, by the way, I think is an excellent means for scaling up the price for pro clients).

 

[zpollock]

I've never heard of anyone leaving CQC for something better, so I think the case for continuing to have DIY users be a part of the development/testing of CQC would have to involve getting people IN, so they could become convinced of its usefulness and power. And by that, I also don't mean just a longer trial period...because at the new prices, I wouldn't have even tried CQC's trial period. Just too big of a mental barrier to get past....especially for adding more clients and drivers (which, by the way, I think is an excellent means for scaling up the price for pro clients).

Yep, I feel the same way. I bought CQC myself, and have "sold" three other copies due to recommendations to friends and would-be HA'ers. If I'd seen a 1K+ price tag before I was involved enough to fully understand and appreciate it then I would have just moved on.

 

[jkish]

I think a real base system for a DIYer would be :

1. Base System $200. Always required. Includes the dev tools, and 12 drivers
2. Intf. Viewer $150. Includes support for one Intf Viewer client
5. Event Srv $150]

If there were a way to offer a crippled version of this bundle for about $299 or so, I think you would attract plenty of DIY customers with a good potential of them upgrading eventually.

A crippled version of 2 and 5 might be to limit the number of templates and events supported.

I too worry about the effect of the a diminished pool of DIY customers as I agree with Zac's thoughts on their importance for driver development and beta testing.

 

[123]

...it seems that the bulk of the driver development and beta testing is done by the DIY crowd, with a few exceptions. ...

... and that's why I had asked which group, pros or DIYers, writes most of the drivers. From a casual survey of CQC's forums, I concluded most drivers were written by the crowd most affected by the new pricing structure; zac reaffirms this position.

Although I write drivers for my HA app and share them with the community, my HA app is free. It's tough to sell drivers for a free product. However, selling drivers for a >$1K HA app might be a lucrative proposition. In fact, it could diminish the availability of free drivers. CQC's ecosystem may change and look more like Homeseer's ... the polar opposite of CQC's current "all you can eat for one annual fee" pricing scheme.

Time will tell.

 

[beelzerob]

Well, if you look at Dean's reply to your question about who writes more, Dean never indicated it *wasn't* DIY'ers...he just differentiated between DIY'ers who may write drivers out of pure charity, or for their own equipment (and then share them), vs. DIY'ers who may get hired to write drivers. All Dean was saying is that it's hard to say who causes the most drivers to BE created....DIY'ers who simply ask or take it on themselves, or pro's who come in waving $$$. Either way, the end result is a driver everyone can use.

I've written dozens of drivers, both of my own free time, and on a paid basis. Almost all of the ones who choose to "hire" me to write a driver are of the "more money than time" category. They know they *could* learn CML and write the driver themselves, and there's lots of help in the forums to do that. But they'd rather just pony up the money and have it now. The "more time than money" category usually isn't interested in paying anything for a driver they want...which includes me. I'd never hire me. I'd rather take whatever time it takes to learn something than pay something I don't otherwise have to.

All that to say, I still don't see CQC ending up with a pay-to-use driver model....it's just not setup for that. And there is a serious community bias against doing that. It wouldn't be well received. I for one always include the stipulation that any driver I'm hired to write gets released to the CQC community once it is working fully...and no one has ever balked at that.

From another viewpoint...if driver writing becomes a high priced affair (which I doubt, as competition could play a factor at some point...a driver is a driver, why not pay the least for it you can?), then it might actually encourage more DIYers to learn CML and start cranking out drivers (whether out of a desire for cash, or a disgust at the thought of it), thus swelling the number who can instead of shrinking it.

Too true....time will tell.

 

[sic0048]

Actually I'm not sure the CQC community would accept for profit third party drivers. All but one or two drivers are open to all to modify if needed. The one or two drivers that are encrypted are at least still free. The biggest problem with Homeseer is the for profit drivers IMHO. You end up with several drivers competing for the same device, and at any time the author can stop supporting the driver. Then the users are forced to live with a less than perfect driver, or they are forced to buy another one. I think CQC users would vote with their wallets and refuse to buy any for profit drivers. Certainly Pros cannot use them because they cannot rely on another person for support. If they cannot open the driver and troubleshoot it, I'd be surprised if any would use them.

 

[Dean Roddey]

There is zero interest in our part in moving towards a pay per driver system. That's more bookkeeping overhead than it's worth. Obviously some specific individual might choose to take on some mondo-complex driver for a very high endy system and sell it, and that's nothing we could stop, nor would we want to if that's what it took to get someone to do such a driver, and it would be unlikely DIYers would use such a high dollar type of thing probably anyway. If we reach a point where individual hardware vendors are willing to do drivers, then they would have no desire to sell them because the point of doing the driver would be to sell hardware.

We certainly appreciate the involvement of the DIY community. But, ultimately, it's just very small. Yes, we could sell the product for $100, and that would get most customers, but it would be an overall complete disaster for us. In the end, the pro community the only source of real money, and this price change is the best compromise we can get that will let us sell the product to DIYers, but not just take a complete bath on the pro system sales. Believe me, we lowered the pro price a LOT in order to reach this compromise. As mentioned, some of it would have been done anyway, even if there were no DIYers, but we definitely worked on the price scaling to keep the system within the reach of DIYers as much as we could.

As you can see from the pricing info above, a reasonable system can be put together for a bit above the current price. So it's not like everyone will have to buy a $1500 system. But, if you are considering the move, clearly there would be a huge benefit to doing so now, before the price change.

 

[felixrosbergen]

In my earlier comment about Activation Keys and moving or re-installing the software Dean responded you would now get a key for whatever you purchases so far.

I would really like it if you would get a key once and when you re-install you use the same key. My concern is that if CQC goes out of business i wouldnt be able to move my server. Obviously you can run it in a Virtual Machine, but I'd like a more elegant solution.

Altogether the new scheme sounds like it will end up being a LOT more administrative load. Keeping track of versions, difference licenses, etc.

For my personal choice with the RIVA and iphone capability and the current drivers out there i can hardly imagine Dean will come up with something new that I really wanted (although he may surprise us..). So from that point of view it's actually a good deal since i got in last year at the 333 deal and was expecting to pay maintenance fees each year but will not need to.

 

[wuench]

My concern is that if CQC goes out of business

:nutz: :nutz: :nutz: :nutz:

 

[Dean Roddey]

For my personal choice with the RIVA and iphone capability and the current drivers out there i can hardly imagine Dean will come up with something new that I really wanted (although he may surprise us..). So from that point of view it's actually a good deal since i got in last year at the 333 deal and was expecting to pay maintenance fees each year but will not need to.

Oh, there'll be plenty of new stuff coming that I imagine you will want.

 

[AnthonyZ]

First, Dean, you are a good man. You owe us nothing and yet, in the spirit of fair play, you offer fair warning to tire kickers coming up. For that I applaud you.

Second, Charmed Quark is an amazing product. As some of you know, I have lost my home and family in recent months and I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss my CQC rig. I think it's a fair assumption to state that my wife and girls continue to be well served by it.

Also, I'm really disappointed. I rarely "stop in" here at CT (or any of my other forum haunts) these days. While I can understand why people may have been upset early in the thread, it's kind of gross to read the same questions and comments come up over and over again throughout. It's like a bunch of illiterates got together to bitch and moan about what they refuse to understand. Not at all like the community that rallied to aid a little boy in need but a few short months ago.

Lastly, drvnbysound, "software jew"? Really? I mean, really?

 

[drvnbysound]

Haha, glad to see that you apparently read my posts thoroughly. To answer your question, yes - open source FTW!!!

 

[Dean Roddey]

As some of you know, I have lost my home and family in recent months and I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss my CQC rig. I think it's a fair assumption to state that my wife and girls continue to be well served by it.

Sorry about that, man. Cliched as it sounds, time will heal that wound. I guess that's why it's a cliche, because it actually does so everyone says it. I think that one my great gifts to the world is that I'm VERY easy to get over. So I cause minimal pain It doesn't take very much time. I'm lucky if they remember my name to sign at the bottom of the letter that they send to dump me.

 

[beelzerob]

Anthony, it's not been quite as vicious or whiny as it may seem. About the worst it ever get was when Dean said "Calm down, man". And coming from Dean, that's like him losing it altogether.

This back and forth hasn't been mean and there's been no name calling (well, until your post), so I don't think cocoontech has *quite* gone down the drain yet.

And heck, maybe drvnbysound *is* a jew, in which case he's allowed to say stuff like that. Isn't that how the rules work? And if not...meh, I'm too busy being angry at other stuff than to take up another fight.

If anything Anthony, you might be a great example of someone that these changes in CQC pricing are good for, because if you don't need or want to make any changes to your system for quite a while, at least you won't be paying every year for that priviledge. Instead, just leave it as it is, and when everything is worked out and better, then you can decide what aspects to pay to upgrade. Just a thought.

But I do know all of us here wish you (and everyone who have posted they've lost their jobs) better opportunities soon.

 

[aslamma]

Seems to me that for the most part this is all good for the existing users. For relatively distant future DIY users, this is just the price of doing business. For those on the fence, it is nice to hear that Dean is giving a heads up so they can act now. There will be a small portion, such as myself, where this does not work out so good. I am not ready to buy quite yet, but maybe in the next few months. But even then, at least it is fair game and I know the deal.

And yeah, I don't think anyone is bitching or complaining too much, just typical reactions to change. I am pretty Dean would have expected this and would need to clarify things unless the price was actually going down (in which case there would still be some bitching). Price changes are going to cause a certain amount either way, especially if it is a dramatic one like this. But its been pretty civil from what I can see.