Wiring Elk M1 panel

[robolo]

A few newbie questions. Trying to wire up my new Elk M1.

What is the best way to connect multiple wires (for example 10 smoke detectors SAUX) to the M1 panel. Jam all the wires into the screw down slot, or splice them before the panel and send a single wire to the panel? Does anybody use a punch down block for this kind of thing?

When mounting modules in the Elk enclosure using the circuit board glides is it possible to mount these towards the bottom of the can? It seems that only along the top of the can are the glide holes oriented to allow the correct direction of the top glide. What if I wantd to put an expander starting at the top of tha can and put a relay module below both on different sets of glides. I can't seem to figure out how to do the lower one.

Thanks
Robolo

 

[gizzmo]

The proper way to wire smoke detectors is to leave the panel with one wire and go from detector to detector until the last device. That is where the EOL (End Of Line) resistor should be located for supervision. Unless you install a zone expander to make each device its own zone or rewire all detectors. The wiring method you have described would require a EOL (End Of Life) resistor place anywhere in the system because it work equally well anywhere it is placed.

 

[Spanky]

Robolo,
Drill your own holes for the mounting rails and put the board whereever you want it.

 

[Steve]

The proper way to wire smoke detectors is to leave the panel with one wire and go from detector to detector until the last device. That is where the EOL (End Of Line) resistor should be located for supervision. Unless you install a zone expander to make each device its own zone or rewire all detectors. The wiring method you have described would require a EOL (End Of Life) resistor place anywhere in the system because it work equally well anywhere it is placed. :blink:

That is true for 2 wire detectors. I think he is talking about homeruns for 4 wire detectors in which case he will have the 2 zone wires and 2 power wires at the panel. This is really the same thing for PIRs, Glass Breaks, etc. I use a European strip or terminal block for all power in the can.

 

[rfdesq]

If you do a search for "terminal block", there are twelve threads that discuss wire options in detail.

 

[gizzmo]

The proper way to wire smoke detectors is to leave the panel with one wire and go from detector to detector until the last device. That is where the EOL (End Of Line) resistor should be located for supervision. Unless you install a zone expander to make each device its own zone or rewire all detectors. The wiring method you have described would require a EOL (End Of Life) resistor place anywhere in the system because it work equally well anywhere it is placed. :blink:

That is true for 2 wire detectors. I think he is talking about home runs for 4 wire detectors in which case he will have the 2 zone wires and 2 power wires at the panel. This is really the same thing for PIRs, Glass Breaks, etc. I use a European strip or terminal block for all power in the can.

If all are home run then it will be one zone per detector or home run. If 4-wire detectors are used then he will need to install 10 power supervision relays for a proper installation. Once that is done he can use a wire nut to terminate all the power wires with one wire to the power terminal. The reason for the power supervision relay(s) is that if they are not installed, when he removes all the detector heads the panel will show a normal condition even when there is no protection. Of course if a fuse blows or wire breaks he will have the same result.

Now have said all that and added about $250 to his installation cost, if the wire was run from detector to detector as NFPA 72 requires he would only need to add the $15 supervision relay. Option 2 is two use 2-wire detectors with a 4 conductor cable and series the loop from detector to detector. You can use terminals or wire nuts and you will not need a power supervision relay.

 

[robolo]

Spanky, thanks for the glide answer, that is what I was suspecting.

As for the detectors I am using all 4 wire and have each one on a separate zone with zone expanders and EOL resistors, but that really isn't the question I had. I really just want to know how you pros connect multiple wires to a single terminal. The terminal blocks may be the answer I needed.

Robolo

 

[thewireguy]

Spanky, thanks for the glide answer, that is what I was suspecting.

As for the detectors I am using all 4 wire and have each one on a separate zone with zone expanders and EOL resistors, but that really isn't the question I had. I really just want to know how you pros connect multiple wires to a single terminal. The terminal blocks may be the answer I needed.

Robolo

To do your install correctly you need to use power supervision relays for each detector!!!

 

[robolo]

Yes, I will be adding a power supervision relay for each detector.

The other place there are multiple wires are the + and - terminals for all daisy chained bus modules and kepads. It is recommended the + and - leads for each device be wired to the board rather than in series. What does everybody do for these? Wire nut? Terminal Block?

 

[Mike]

Robolo, I did 2-wire myself, but after going through the process and understanding the details after doing it, I would go with the four wire approach you are taking. It may be more expensive but this is a one time cost, and we are talking about life safety here.

I have no problems with my install, but it would be nice to have zone level control (and wiring, although that may also add to cabling). $250 (or whatever it amounts to) shouldn't be a hard decision in most cases, but personal preference may prevail (especially if placement drives it as well, in my case it would have been easier to have a few legs, although some of those legs could have ideally had more than one detector rather than one big run as it is now).

 

[Steve]

Like Mike I did a 2 wire at my house. I had trouble getting the reversing relay to work (to sound all detectors when one goes off). When I did my sisters install I contemplated using 4 wire. The thing is I just don't see the value of using individual zones in a typical 1 story ranch house. You do still get the indication of which detector alarmed, but only by looking at the LEDs. If they actually do go off I am not running to my interface to see which one did, I am getting the family out first and investigating after. I do see how 4 wire zones can perhaps help in a large multistory house.

To do the 4 wire you need the power sup relays for *each* detector which can add alot to the cost depending on # of detectors, plus of course available zones. As Mike said, while is is more $$$ initially, it is not worth it to be cheap if you need that granular a setup.

Since I had trouble with the EOLR, I decided on a different approach at my sisters. Without using the EOLR only the tripped detector will sound, so what I did was put several of the piezo screamers around the house and when any detector trips, I turn them on. Believe me, a few of those puppies going off are much more effective than just the detectors screaming, plus I can put them in cheap and locate them where I want, not just at the detector head.

But from a life safety perspective, both the 2 wire or 4 wire should perform exactly the same.

and same advice for bus wires as zone wires - I used european strips - for power and actually even the bus itself in the can.

 

[Digger]

The advantage of 4 wire detectors on individual zones with the ELK is that you can have it say the location of the fire (Master Bedroom, Den, Living Room etc). I like that feature and do that with CO, Flood Detectors, Heat Detectors etc as well.

I also like the fact that the ELK can give instructions such as "Leave Immediatly" etc since I have young kids and its a reminder to them what to do.

I agree ins a smaller one story house it is not as usefull but I have a 4 level split and decided to spend the time and money. Since I got some of my materials at wholesale prices it was as Dick Cheney would say "A no brainer to me". B)

 

[Mike]

The proper way to wire smoke detectors is to leave the panel with one wire and go from detector to detector until the last device. That is where the EOL (End Of Line) resistor should be located for supervision. Unless you install a zone expander to make each device its own zone or rewire all detectors. The wiring method you have described would require a EOL (End Of Life) resistor place anywhere in the system because it work equally well anywhere it is placed. B)

Are you saying that you can wire a 2-wire smoke from zone 16 on the main board, run it somehow to a zone expander, and then have zone level granularity for two wire smokes?

I understand how this can be done with 4-wire smokes, but can this be done with 2-wires as well (I wasn't sure if this is what you were implying, which was something I never thought about, although I'm not sure how this would be wired).

EDIT: Bolded line in question

 

[Mike]

Like Mike I did a 2 wire at my house. I had trouble getting the reversing relay to work (to sound all detectors when one goes off).

Hmm thanks for the reminder. I had similar issues and never went back to this once I got my smoke detector issues ironed out. If I get the reversing relay working I'll post my results.

It did seem to be working originally with the 2W-MOD2 but I took it out when I suspected it could have been the reason for my false alarms (it was not). I then later heard that the clean-me signal is supported by the elk which would mean that would not be required again... A project for another day...

 

[Digger]

The only zone that you can do 2 wire smokes with the ELK is Zone 16 on the M1 itself. Most Combination (Fire/Burglar) Panels can only do 2 wire smokes on 1 or 2 zones.