Z-Wave vs Insteon - Opinions?
- Thread starter KenM
- Start date
KenM
Active Member
WayneW
The SDK termination was necessary in order that I could be honest with any future findings that I might have. The whole SDK agreement is written in language that would make a lawyer nervous, I did not want that hanging over my head.
I could not legally comment on any discovered defect while under that agreement. The ones that I know of now must remain secret.
I cannot even comment on the level of support that SH provided.
About all that I can say is that Insteon is a good product with a lot of growing pains to go through yet.
Ken
The SDK termination was necessary in order that I could be honest with any future findings that I might have. The whole SDK agreement is written in language that would make a lawyer nervous, I did not want that hanging over my head.
I could not legally comment on any discovered defect while under that agreement. The ones that I know of now must remain secret.
I cannot even comment on the level of support that SH provided.
About all that I can say is that Insteon is a good product with a lot of growing pains to go through yet.
Ken
KenM -
I am confused about two things. You paid for these modules and they failed, right? They have to be less than two years old, why are you not replacing them under warranty? Are you saying that your wife would rather you spend more money than try a newer set of modules for free?
/carmi
I am confused about two things. You paid for these modules and they failed, right? They have to be less than two years old, why are you not replacing them under warranty? Are you saying that your wife would rather you spend more money than try a newer set of modules for free?
/carmi
Even if you dont want them have them replaced and resell them and get your money back (or most of it). I am still waiting for a switch I FEDEX'd to them over a month ago so dont hold your breath. I hear they are actually very good on replacing them so I guess mine is a fluke.
Have you called them to check on it? I have not replaced any Insteon gear (none of the hundred or so I have installed has failed yet), but I have replaced other gear from SmartHome both with Advance Replacement and with standard replacement and have never had a problem.Digger said:
/carmi
KenM
Active Member
Hi all,
On the returns-
My house is exclusively two pin and the only V2 appliance links made are three pin. The extra ground pins 'went away' on the ones I have, rendering them useless for refund. The plug in dimmer modules mostly work well, I plan on keeping those. The remaining appliance modules (I have three still functional) work on loads such as small radios and lamps, those will stay around too.
People have already gone through several iterations of return/replace on the wall switches with various levels of success. I do not like to change out wall switches every other week. Sooner or later the wiring is going to suffer. I plan on keeping the switches that behave well. I figured that those would be the basis for some type of comparison with Z-Wave. The defective units that are refundable will go back to SH. I, personally, cannot sell the others, knowing the history of the things. I expect that SH will work all of the problems out, I just got tired of using my house's wiring as a 'final check' facility.
The things going on in the software world, coupled with the hardware/firmware problems, are what prompted me to try something different. Z-Wave may not be any better for my application, but I will give a fair try. My house is only 1500 square feet so the cost of the switches isn't anything too great. The size also makes Z-Wave more attractive in that no large distances are involved.
Ken
On the returns-
My house is exclusively two pin and the only V2 appliance links made are three pin. The extra ground pins 'went away' on the ones I have, rendering them useless for refund. The plug in dimmer modules mostly work well, I plan on keeping those. The remaining appliance modules (I have three still functional) work on loads such as small radios and lamps, those will stay around too.
People have already gone through several iterations of return/replace on the wall switches with various levels of success. I do not like to change out wall switches every other week. Sooner or later the wiring is going to suffer. I plan on keeping the switches that behave well. I figured that those would be the basis for some type of comparison with Z-Wave. The defective units that are refundable will go back to SH. I, personally, cannot sell the others, knowing the history of the things. I expect that SH will work all of the problems out, I just got tired of using my house's wiring as a 'final check' facility.
The things going on in the software world, coupled with the hardware/firmware problems, are what prompted me to try something different. Z-Wave may not be any better for my application, but I will give a fair try. My house is only 1500 square feet so the cost of the switches isn't anything too great. The size also makes Z-Wave more attractive in that no large distances are involved.
Ken
digger; Curious. I did one ApplianceLinc V2 on a cross ship method. Did you maybe do the return and then we ship back method? Yes I did have the new module added to my credit card; but with in a week after they got the one back. A credit was issued. They also put a free shipping tag for FedEx in my replacement box to use for the return module.
Though; I sometimes sound like I am down on Smartlabs. I am not. I just wish they would address this module problem more openly.
Though; I sometimes sound like I am down on Smartlabs. I am not. I just wish they would address this module problem more openly.
Do you live in an urban or suburban location? My biggest issues with Z-wave are that it is 2.4 GHz, that it only supports 232 devices and that they will not support open source development. For a home control system, I want a small system with no spinning storage. I personally would never use Windows for a control application.
In one of my locations, I already have over 100 switches and wall warts. I also have 20 Logitech 890 Z-Wave remotes (I have had many problems with these so far, but I am not yet blaming them on Z-Wave) putting one in each room. Were I too add motion and temperature sensors, door sensors, ventilation controls, and window/shade controls, I worry about hitting device limits.
At my house in FL, I have 5 acres, so I am not worried about 2.4GHz, but in other more densely populated areas, I am concerned about problems with interference with the other million 2.4GHz devices out there. There are already problems cropping up in places like NYC, Chicago and San Francisco with WiFi networks stomping on each other. Adding more devices to this mix seems like a bad idea.
/carmi
In one of my locations, I already have over 100 switches and wall warts. I also have 20 Logitech 890 Z-Wave remotes (I have had many problems with these so far, but I am not yet blaming them on Z-Wave) putting one in each room. Were I too add motion and temperature sensors, door sensors, ventilation controls, and window/shade controls, I worry about hitting device limits.
At my house in FL, I have 5 acres, so I am not worried about 2.4GHz, but in other more densely populated areas, I am concerned about problems with interference with the other million 2.4GHz devices out there. There are already problems cropping up in places like NYC, Chicago and San Francisco with WiFi networks stomping on each other. Adding more devices to this mix seems like a bad idea.
/carmi
I didn't need the switch replaced overnight since I was using it in a 3 way circuit and I have teh master switch. I also made that light automated after teh switch crapped out and now I may use the replacement switch for something else.
They mailed me a FEDEX label with a RMA number. I got that in a few days. I have been to busy/lazy to call them up. I just recently (yesterday) lost my job so now I have more time on my hands. I switched jobs (was 12 yrs with my previous employer) and after one week was let go since the commute was long and my kids could not adapt to getting up and out earlier (so I was late a few times). I wasnt thrilled with the new job anyway. Live and learn I guess.
I had lots of issues when I first put the Insteon in. Things have stabilized since I found some of the problems and corrected them. Amazing how many things cause noise that can affect these products. Based on a few previous comments in this thread I realize I should move my wireless router away from the serial interface and RF Link (duh) and maybe that will cut down on the missed commands as well (worth a try).
I actually like the Insteon since they work reasonably well and they are manufactured reasonably well. Taking into consideration the price point I am happy. I could not see investing $100 a switch. Even $50 is a bit much for me. I am not going crazy with them. In the end maybe I will have 25 or 30 switches/dimmers tops. They are just a pain to link (in a noisey enviroment at least). After that they are fine. If they improve the linking method and they hold up I would give them a 9 on scale of 1 to 10 all things considered.
They mailed me a FEDEX label with a RMA number. I got that in a few days. I have been to busy/lazy to call them up. I just recently (yesterday) lost my job so now I have more time on my hands. I switched jobs (was 12 yrs with my previous employer) and after one week was let go since the commute was long and my kids could not adapt to getting up and out earlier (so I was late a few times). I wasnt thrilled with the new job anyway. Live and learn I guess.
I had lots of issues when I first put the Insteon in. Things have stabilized since I found some of the problems and corrected them. Amazing how many things cause noise that can affect these products. Based on a few previous comments in this thread I realize I should move my wireless router away from the serial interface and RF Link (duh) and maybe that will cut down on the missed commands as well (worth a try).
I actually like the Insteon since they work reasonably well and they are manufactured reasonably well. Taking into consideration the price point I am happy. I could not see investing $100 a switch. Even $50 is a bit much for me. I am not going crazy with them. In the end maybe I will have 25 or 30 switches/dimmers tops. They are just a pain to link (in a noisey enviroment at least). After that they are fine. If they improve the linking method and they hold up I would give them a 9 on scale of 1 to 10 all things considered.
KenM
Active Member
Majortom,
I am at the opposite end of being an expert on these, the literature I read said Z-Wave ran at 908.4 Mhz. I will test out the interference thing. I have a 2.4 GHZ wireless home network set up and a 5.6 GHZ cordless phone. I do live in the suburbs so there is plenty of RF noise around.
The computer control is not too important at this point in time. I have decided not to help buy Bill Gates any more private jets, so I am migrating to Linux. I suspect that at least one PC will have to be set up as a dual boot system just so that all of my hardware and software IDEs are supported as needed. Insteon does not seem too interested in supporting Linux. Right now they are too busy trying to get the windows stuff to work right. I have decided not to worry about that too much just yet.
Ken
I am at the opposite end of being an expert on these, the literature I read said Z-Wave ran at 908.4 Mhz. I will test out the interference thing. I have a 2.4 GHZ wireless home network set up and a 5.6 GHZ cordless phone. I do live in the suburbs so there is plenty of RF noise around.
The computer control is not too important at this point in time. I have decided not to help buy Bill Gates any more private jets, so I am migrating to Linux. I suspect that at least one PC will have to be set up as a dual boot system just so that all of my hardware and software IDEs are supported as needed. Insteon does not seem too interested in supporting Linux. Right now they are too busy trying to get the windows stuff to work right. I have decided not to worry about that too much just yet.
Ken
ChrisWalker
Active Member
Just to verify, Z-Wave is 900MHz, not 2.4GHz. That's one of the very nice things about it--you don't have to worry about it competing with all of the 2.4GHz devices out there (like the nasty pre-N WiFi routers, the XBOX 360, etc.).majortom said:
802.15.4 (sometimes marketed as ZigBee) devices generally run at 2.4GHz, on the other hand.
Chris
johnnynine
Active Member
Interesting, can anyone tell me zwave's ramp rate and on level info if any. Insteon allows each dimmer module to have a ramp rate and an on level (per controlling module). How does zwave compare?majortom said:
KenM
Active Member
Just to keep the record clear....
Any Linux Insteon drivers happened because of people (Hi Niel) other than Insteon doing the work. Right now Insteon 'tolerates' Linux, that is about it, no support.
I got my first Z-Wave things in the mail today (from Smarthome). The first thing that I noticed was that the Z-Wave dimmer was about 1/4 inch deeper than the SH ones. If this was a whole house installation I would be thinking about replacing some of my old boxes or wiring, just to get a good fit. I will see how well this thing fits in a single gang box tomorrow.
I have received two ZDW100W HomePro dimmers, one Intermatic 'handy remote controller' and one Intermatic 'wireless control appliance module'. The appliance module says that it will control flourescent bulbs up to 42 watts. I will check that out tomorrow.
Ken
Any Linux Insteon drivers happened because of people (Hi Niel) other than Insteon doing the work. Right now Insteon 'tolerates' Linux, that is about it, no support.
I got my first Z-Wave things in the mail today (from Smarthome). The first thing that I noticed was that the Z-Wave dimmer was about 1/4 inch deeper than the SH ones. If this was a whole house installation I would be thinking about replacing some of my old boxes or wiring, just to get a good fit. I will see how well this thing fits in a single gang box tomorrow.
I have received two ZDW100W HomePro dimmers, one Intermatic 'handy remote controller' and one Intermatic 'wireless control appliance module'. The appliance module says that it will control flourescent bulbs up to 42 watts. I will check that out tomorrow.
Ken
